Forums > Electric Guitar > Can you tell the difference between good and bad guitar playing?
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Forums > Electric Guitar > Can you tell the difference between good and bad guitar playing?
Original message:108 days 17 hours 52 minutes ago
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Member: Jason Hughes
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So I ran across a couple of videos of people doing covers on Youtube. Viewers comment on the videos and say that person did an awesome job. And sometimes the comments rang true. But other times, not. Which got me thinking, I don't think most people, including most guitar players are able to tell the difference between good and bad guitar playing, i.e. being able to differentiate what makes a player good in my opinion. I'm not talking about playing style either when I mention player quality. So I downloaded one of these clips in particular that I have a certain opinion of so you guys could listen to it. Please tell me what you think of this person's soloing and WHY you think the playing is good or bad. If the person who actually played this song happens to be a member of this board, I apologize ahead of time, but all musicians can always use positive and negative feedback.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/5r2fgw
Reply:108 days 17 hours 29 minutes ago
Member: Rary
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Well, at first listen, in terms of the mp3, not only is he using strictly pentatonic in a super lame fashion, half of the time it sounds way too rushed, and the soloists's timing is very bad.
The tone, in my opinion is also quite lacking. I'm not the hugest fan of the blues, as I find a large amount of their players are close minded and, once again, use strictly Pentatonic scales and their phrasing is very predictable. Also, in the Mp3, the soloist doesn't seem to use any techniques aside from bending and slurs.
In my opinion, what makes a great guitar player is somebody who can find their own style. Especially nowadays, with as many possibilities to learn, and to pick up what with backing tracks, things like that, a person can learn quite quickly how to play very well.
BUT, technical ability, in my opinion, does not necessarily make a good guitar player.
For instance, I had a show about two or three weeks ago, and one of the bands that opened for us had this guitar player, and he seemed to know just about everything. Honestly, this kid could shred. Before his band went on, we talked about tons of stuff, and he knew his shit, and, once again, he could shred.
BUT, when his band went on stage, the songs that his band had written were really bland, and he really looked like somebody ho didn't know what he was doing.
A Lot of people focus on being able to shred, or being able to solo like none other, but honestly just because you can shred somebody's face off, doesn't give you an ounce of credibility, in my opinion. I have met many guitar players who, if you asked them to solo, wouldn't be able to do much of anything, but put them in an environment where they are writing and interacting with other players, and they shine and write parts that are mind blowing.
BUT, what I think makes a good soloist, is somebody who has a very strong vibrato, plays notes with some sort of conviction/power, uses advanced techniques, and plays cleanly.
But that's just my opinion, I dont necessarily have a whole lot of credibility eitherlol

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Reply:108 days 16 hours 43 minutes ago
Member: Jason Hughes
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Stuff like scale choice and tone are subjective stuff, where one man's meat is another man's poison. I think the timing and phrasing prevents the solo from being good even though the player obviously has the technical ability to create a decent blues based solo. Although I have varying opinions on who I think are 'enjoyable' players to listen to and what makes a 'great' player, I think EVERY 'good' guitar player must have a halfway decent concept of timing and phrasing and pitch if you're going to use stringbending. Kurt Cobain is a guitarist who gets flamed in almost every guitar message board for being a crappy guitarist, but he played his solos relatively in time and had a decent sense of phrasing. I also think if you played the general populace a copy of this MP3 and also Jimi's original version of Hey Joe, they would not be able to tell which one was better.
Reply:108 days 15 hours 3 minutes ago
Member: shanejohnson2002
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I think I can see a little bit of where you are coming from on this...I have been in music stores where 4 kids all sit around one who is playing the same pentatonic riffs over and over, and they are worshipping him. "Dude you rock! You should go pro!" etc etc.

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Reply:108 days 15 hours 39 minutes ago
Member: JTC
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If this were Satch I'd tell him it was not very good. if it were my son who is a beginner I'd tell him it sounded great. It's a matter of perspective and perspective should be considered when you evaluate your own music. Usually it will sound better to the person who created it.

The player in this mp3 is not a complete beginner however may not be extremely experienced either. It's easy to recognize that the person has studied the pentatonic scale and understands how to improvise the notes over the chord progression. The flat bends stand out most to me but I can't flame it based on that. I've been playing for a long time and I still hear poor bends in my recordings. Overall the playing is ok but could be much better.

If I had viewed this on Youtube and were going to leave a comment I don't think I would have told the person that it was great but I certainly would have tried to make them feel good about accomplishing a descent recording and continue to produce more. It is certain that the recordings will get better and better with experience.

If you can record "Just Do It!". Comments are for motivation only. Don't quit because someone says you suck. Don't get a big head when someone says you are great. Just move on to the next project no matter what.

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Reply:108 days 15 hours 27 minutes ago
Member: bachmirage
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i don't think the average person would have much problem distinguishing that clip from someone who is good. the sour notes pretty much stick out like a sore thumb. even the dullest ears can hear that. and poor timing is easily heard and felt by just about anyone. so NO...i don't think the average person would have much problem telling the difference between good and bad playing. especially in this instance.....
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Reply:108 days 13 hours 47 minutes ago
Member: Jason Hughes
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One would think the average person could distinguish but I'm not so sure. I've walked out of many a rock show with non-guitar playing friends where the guitarist was just horrible due to bad timing or pitch bending and my friends thought that person was great because they were able to throw in a few fast rock licks.
Reply:108 days 15 hours 16 minutes ago
Member: shanejohnson2002
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If all you're looking for is an intelligent reasoning behind each individual conclusion, I think you'll find many here that do that on a regular basis.

If you are looking for everyone to agree with your assessment, then I think you are going to be in for a surprise. There are vastly different schools of though between each *person* on this site, let alone the genres we all represent. For instance a "good" metal vibrato is not the same thing as a "good" blues vibrato. A "good" jazz tone is not the same as a "good" rock tone. It's all individually subjective anyway.

That being said, I will listen to the clip and drop my opinion on it shortly ;)

OK my opinion:

Style: Lack of timing. The intro in particular only resembles the original in its note selection; rhythmically, it is as different as it could be. I would not even consider the timing "relaxed" in the common rock sense, as much as non-existent. The downbeat seems to be a foreign concept to this player. The riffs are performed in a stiff manner, no fluidity or sense of phrasing at all. Some players can use this to achieve great effects, but in this case it's the matter of course and as such indicates someone who probably needs to develop their ears, timing, and fluidity a little better. The riffs are also repetitive...he/she rarely strays outside the "box" within which they are soloing, and keep bending the same notes over and over.

Tone: Not what I would consider bad, but nothing spectacular. Just another Jimi / Stevie clone.

Overall: There is nothing here making me go "wow! This is awesome!". At the same time, however, if this were someone who had been playing a handful of months, this would be pretty impressive. For someone who'd been playing for 7 years, I would be less than thrilled.

Again, like it has been said...it's all perspective, and remember that each perspective is filtered through a lifetime of individual experiences which give everyone their own unique preferences.
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Reply:108 days 14 hours 35 minutes ago
Member: pickabass
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shane , your webcreb was just 1337, then i ruined it. . .

My opinion . . . i think what makes a good solo is not technique, but making every note mean something. You could play a billion notes and thats all it would be, just a billion notes, even if it was a billion notes that made sense musically. But, take somebody who is relativey slow, or sloppy, at a time when their soul is pouring out, and it will awe people. I believe that while technical proficiency helps, the ability to improvise, and react to whatever is going on will help you sell out many more shows.

I guess it comes down to how you define "good guitar playing", skill, or conviction?
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Reply:108 days 14 hours 26 minutes ago
Member: shanejohnson2002
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lol np I saw it earlier and was tempted to take a screen shot...but my geek side just couldn't bring my normal side to do it ;)


"I guess it comes down to how you define "good guitar playing", skill, or conviction?"

Who says you can't play with both?

This whole "feeling vs technique" thing is ridiculous, I think. People without skill hide behind it saying that "playing with feeling is more important". People with skill hide behind the "technique is required to be a good player" thing. I'm tired of both...I want someone to admit that both are equally important, and they are by no means mutually exclusive.

But, this is just my opinion :-P
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Reply:108 days 14 hours 30 minutes ago
Member: jobabrinks
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The tone sounds fine to me. Aside from the obvious mistakes like hitting wrong strings, the timing and phrasing needs some work. There is also one descending pentatonic lick that is played to death which sounds like it came straight from a Mel Bay exercise book. I could definitely see somebody listening to this and thinking it was awesome though.
Reply:108 days 14 hours 9 minutes ago
Member: Fred Kraus
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It won't download for me, so I can't tell. Do you have the YouTube URL?
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Reply:108 days 13 hours 52 minutes ago
Member: Jason Hughes
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I pasted the URL to a note in your profile page.
Reply:108 days 11 hours 43 minutes ago
Member: Fred Kraus
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Thanks Jason. I just watched it. I don't think he's awful, but his timing is sporadic and he does miss a lot of notes. I'm rather partial to the pentatonic scale myself. I think growing up in the 70's with hard rock and blues scales everywhere had a lot to do with it. He looks to be about my age. If I heard him play in a music store, I might compliment him, but I don't think the guy is an awesome player. He's slightly above mediocre in my opinion. Sometimes it really is more about attitude that how fast you can go. I think the problem I have with this guy is he seems to lack passion, or at least that's my perception. I've heard guys who weren't into playing fast and accurately, but their songs had a groove, or feel that I liked. He really does need to improve on his timing though.
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Reply:108 days 13 hours 26 minutes ago
Member: bachmirage
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shane...what's the signifigance of "1337" ???
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