very good point he just made is getting the major scales then get your one step up to the dorian starting on it's 2nd note...also know your relative minor to major so its easy to configure...

Agreed. In fact tonal music can not be played without it. If your playing the Cmajor scale over a Cmajor progression, you are using modes and not even aware of it.

"i know my major scale, and how to construct the modes. i just dont know all the theory of how the modes "work""

"(sorry if i seem kinda dumb, i just started learning modes 2 days ago)"


Ok... I explained the Theory of composing with modes above, and specificaly Ami. And don't feel dumb...I struggled with modes until I got with a teacher just like everyone else. ;)

"i just need to understand the theory of composing WITH modes (not just a mode song but, to incorperate a mode into a song based off of Am [ A natural minor] so that i could expand the sound into something more than just minor) because i want to use dorian (because i like the way it sounds)"

You are making essentially the same mistake everyone makes when it comes to modes (even the majority of your famous shred guitarplayers). A natural minor is Aeolian. Therfore it can never be dorian. Understand? If you are writing in Ami (natural minor) then your modal key center is Cmaj...just as Shanejhonson said! What you are missing is the the bigger picture, and the key lies in a fundemental understanding that church modes are the major chord scale in scalar form! In other words, you can not write in A naturalminor and have it be dorian too! Natural minor is b3, b6,b7. Dorian is b3,6,b7. One note makes a HUGE difference. NOW...lets say you want to use Dorian over the A chord. Fine, you will need to shift your key center from Cmaj to Gamj for your tonic chord. Lets take a closer look at how to play modes over the Cmajor chord scale in real life...I will use Ami as a tonic:

Ami: play the Cmajor scale and you will HEAR aeolian (AKA natural minor)
C: play the Cmajor scale and you will HEAR ionian
G: Play the Cmajor scale and you will HEAR mixolydian

Ok...so you want to make the Ami dorian?

Ami: play the Gmajor scale and you will HEAR Dorian
C: play the Cmajor scale and you will HEAR ionian
G: Play the Cmajor scale and you will HEAR mixolydian

Can you HEAR the distinction? Lets make that C major chord lydian by using the Gmaj scale for that chord as well..

Ami: play the Gmajor scale and you will HEAR Dorian
C: play the Gmajor scale and you will HEAR Lydian
G: Play the Cmajor scale and you will HEAR mixolydian

That actually makes some good musical sense!

If you want to hear Phrygian over that A you would play the Fmaj scale. Here is a good excercise for you to do that will help you learn how modes can be applied. Take your A chords, and see what it can be in every key. Like thus

Cmajor: Ami7 =Natural minor (aka aeolian)
Dmajor: A7=Mixolydian
Emajor: Amaj7=Lydian
Fmajor: Ami7=Phrygian

etc...you do the rest, and post them if you feel up to it.

The only way to play modes on their own as scales, and hear the chord qualities they represent is to use a pedal point, or a bass note alone that does not reflect a chord quality. For the exercise I wrote above, you would simply have someone play A bass note over and over again, and then you could run all of those major scales over it and hear the corresponding mode "quality".

Do not ever make the mistake of seperating a mode from it's chord. This is a foolish pitfall that is easily avoided and will set you back a long way if you decide to fall into it. Play some of this stuff I wrote for you, and see if you can hear what I am saying if not intellectualize it. Modes are simple...don't try to overcomplicate things by thinking they should do something that they can not do....ie dorian sound over A natural minor. This is a contridiction of terms...not dissimilar from saying I want a happy scale sound over a minor chord.

Good luck, and I hope this discussion is helping you out.

sallan

"Havent you ever heard that song by loverboy? Pig and elephant DNA just wont splice? "