Forums > Music Theory > Do you think music theory is Mendatory To be a great guitar player ?
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Forums > Music Theory > Do you think music theory is Mendatory To be a great guitar player ?
Original message:444 days 10 hours 22 minutes ago
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Member: polal2is
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Tell me what you think of it :
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Reply:444 days 9 hours 12 minutes ago
Member: charles
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to be a great guitarist no you don't need theory, but if your writing music or playing in a band it really gives you a leg up. its not mandatory but it will make you a better player.
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Reply:403 days 2 hours 21 minutes ago
Member: metallicrap
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I'll put it you you this way: Kurt Cobain didn't know shit from shinola about theory. Dimebag didn't either. There's two schools of thought. Now a guy like Steve Vai and Joe Satriani and Ynwie know their stuff. Malmsteen knows EVERYTHING about theory.
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Reply:443 days 8 hours 44 minutes ago
Member: Xarkzila
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Not at all necessary. Ask Pete Townshend a theory question and you'll get a wrong answer, guaranteed! So Pete knows nothing about music theory, yet he's written some great stuff!
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"The music industry is a cruel and shallow money trench. A long plastic hallway where theives and pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side..."
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Reply:442 days 13 hours 40 minutes ago
Member: JonR
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It's not "Mendatory" to be a great player. It's not even mandatory! ;-)

Knowing theory will make you a better all-round musician. It will help you conceptualise what you hear and what you play, and (most importantly) will help you communicate with other musicians, both verbally and in writing.

But it WON'T make you a better PLAYER. That comes from listening and from practice: ears and fingers.
Reply:440 days 19 hours 8 minutes ago
Member: M. Brandon Lee
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I'm actually going through this right now. I'm in a rutt right now in terms of my writing. I have the technique down, and I can use my hear, but I'm hitting a wall. I don't know how to get what's in my head to transfer to my fingers. I don't know why this progression sounds good, or this or that.

While it's not to say that this is universal, Jimi Hendrix was able to write music and play on the fly, but he also had a great ear...and some help from...um, substances heh.

For me though, I'm taking guitar lessons now (I've taught myself for 7 years) and the things I'm learning now have helped a great deal in being able to write, understand, figure out songs, etc. with more ease.
Reply:439 days 19 hours 22 minutes ago
Member: Jippy
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Music Theory is sort of like the language of musicians. It enables fast and accurate communication, as well as access to concepts without the need to invent them yourself. That said, it's not NECESSARY... but you can almost guarantee that an awesome player, who doesn't know theory, can be made more awesome through the knowledge.

But at the end of the day, if you enjoy yourself.... then whatever goes goes. I don't know how much theory Captain Beefheart knew, or whether it would have mattered....
Reply:439 days 18 hours 4 minutes ago
Member: shanejohnson2002
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You don't have to KNOW theory to UNDERSTAND theory. There's a HUGE difference...

Knowing theory means you know the chord names, scale structures, proper-voice leading, differences in orchestration between the 1700's and 1800's, embellishments, etc etc. That's book knowledge.

A lot of musicians don't KNOW theory. They do however intuitively understand it. They know what a major chord feels like, what a minor chord feels like, and what notes just feel or sound "right".

I do firmly believe that theory opens up a whole new realm of possibility for the practicing musician. It's the language of music, and it is mathematical, structural, and yet at the same time it has a lot of vague and abstract qualities. I encourage anyone I teach to learn as much as they can, from me, from books, from the internet, whatever. And of course anyone who says they know everything about it knows nothing. Even my professors are still learning new things all the time. It's the analogy of a poet trying to write an 18th-century style Romantic epic poem....with the vocabulary of a kindergartner. Some could probably do it. Most can't.

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Reply:438 days 21 hours 55 minutes ago
Member: Jippy
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right on
Reply:438 days 18 hours 49 minutes ago
Member: Luke Dennis
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In my opinion I think in order to be a great player you need to understand theory. No matter what instrument you play.
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Reply:438 days 18 hours 26 minutes ago
Member: Dan Green
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If a guitarist needs to understand theory or not is the issue being debated here, not if they know theory. As posted before, knowing theory is being able to play every chord and every scale without thinking.
To be a great guitar player can be defined differently from person to person. A great cover player doesn't need to understand it but an original artist needs to, no matter what their skill level. If they don't, then how do they know what sounds good and what doesn't on a moments notice? A great guitarist need to be able to play a great original lick on a moments notice. That always has been and always will be my philosophy.
Overall, every guitarist needs to understand the basics like the structure of a chord and scales. The better you get the more you need to know. Start with the easy stuff and work your way up. Learn theory at the same rate as you learn speed and technique. In the end, isn't everything you play on a guitar theory based?

-Dan
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Reply:438 days 17 hours 12 minutes ago
Member: shanejohnson2002
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"If a guitarist needs to understand theory or not is the issue being debated here, not if they know theory.

Did you not read the second half of what I posted? it clearly explains my feelings on the mandatory nature of theory.
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Reply:438 days 12 hours 55 minutes ago
Member: JonR
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"To be a great guitar player can be defined differently from person to person. A great cover player doesn't need to understand it but an original artist needs to, no matter what their skill level. If they don't, then how do they know what sounds good and what doesn't on a moments notice?"

By ear, of course - and playing experience. Theory won't tell you what "sounds good". It will only tell you what most other people thought sounded OK, in the past, in a general way.

"In the end, isn't everything you play on a guitar theory based? "

Well yes, it can all be DESCRIBED in theoretical terms. The question is whether you need those terms, or find them useful. Of course, most people do. And it's very few players who can do everything by intuition.
My point is that the music comes first, the theory comes later. Theory is only a route (and only one route) back to the music.
It's a little like understanding the grammar of a foreign language you want to speak. You could listen to natives and copy them, pick things up that way. That will get you there eventually. But will probably help to read a book of grammar, or a dictionary, too. (Having said that, the language of music is not actually foreign to any of us. We've been listening to it all our lives. We know how it's supposed to sound. The challenge of becoming a performer is more of a technical one than a theoretical one.)

Theory gives you a conceptual framework within which to build an understanding of how music works, and which helps you communicate (verbally) with other musicians.
Every musician needs a conceptual framework of some kind, a mental image of what they're hearing or aiming at, that helps them organise the sonic information. To actually PLAY, they don't need a standard or conventional framework; they could invent their own if they wanted. (They will get the same musical results, because they are listening to the same music, and aiming for the same targets.)
But to talk to others, they DO need the conventional framework. So it may as well be the conventional one that they learn.

So I'm not exactly disagreeing with you. I like theory myself, and find it hugely useful. But I do know it hasn't made me a better player. Well, maybe a tiny bit... But that's not really the point of it.
Reply:438 days 17 hours 13 minutes ago
Member: Alex2
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If you re able to produce happiness playing guitar , you're a good guitarist at least for one person.

Does that sound positive ?

To me someone who knows only 3 chords can be a good guitarist.
Someone might know all his positions of the minor harmonic scale in a second
or play quarter notes on "giant steps" for hours at 340 without hitting a wrong note
and be a very boring guitarist. But like I said even a boring guitar player has fun
and happiness playing . So it's also a matter of taste

Knowing theory is certainly not a bad thing !

That's my philosophy
Reply:436 days 22 hours 47 minutes ago
Member: zenguitar
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I think shanejohnson hit the nail right on the head. The fact is, whether they knew the correct terminology or not, all great guitarists USE theory. In other words, they play the same scales, and chords (for the most part) of someone who is well versed in theory--- they don't just randomly choose notes that have never been used before. I agree with shane that knowing theory and understanding theory (or as I would put it, knowing theory intellectually and knowing theory intuitively) are two different things, but both give us a very similiar result.

Also this type of question is largely dependant on who you consider to be a "great guitarist". The people that I consider to be great guitarists are people like John Mclaughlin, Pat Metheny, John Williams, etc... and they most certainly do know their theory. I wouldn't consider Pete Townsend to be a great guitarist, even though he was certainly an important part of "rock history".

I think the important question for everyone to ask themself is what do YOU want to achieve. For example if you want to play like John Mclaughlin, then theory is an absolute requirement. If you want to play like Pete Townsend, then obviously it is not...

So the real question is "Is music theory mandatory to be guitar player I want to be?" and the answer will be different for everyone.
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Reply:428 days 12 hours 9 minutes ago
Member: JonR
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I agree totally with your first paragraph, but the rest doesn't follow.

We can of course argue about who is a "great guitarist" ;-).
Eg, I think the greatest jazz guitarists were Django Reinhardt and Wes Montgomery. They famously knew no theory, in the intellectual academic sense - but of course knew it intuitively, having studied their craft by ear and experimentation.
(Do you know the story of John McLaughlin on Miles Davis "Silent Way" session? He struggled and sweated for several takes to find the right thing to play, until Miles said to him "play like you don't know how to play the guitar". This baffled McLaughlin - but the next take was the successful one. ;-) )

As I said above, music is a language, basically. The goal is to be able to speak it like a native, like our mother tongue. We can do it by "going native" (listening and copying), or by reading books - or ideally I guess with a combination of both.
But it's wrong to suggest that an intuitive player (like Townshend, say) will never be as good as a trained one. It all depends on how good your ear is - and of course on what music you choose to play. The Who would not have been as good with Pat Metheny or John Williams on guitar, now would they??.. ;-).)