Never convicted, so in this country of which Rep King is an elected leader, one must assume he misspoke or feel he has more information than the Judge and jury. I hate Political correctness as it tends to allow people to be less than honest on certain issues but that is certainly not the case for Rep Kiing in this particular case, I wonder if he is so forth right in all his opinions.

I haven't seen that much coverage. But that's probably because I don't watch that much TV. But even when I have watched, its' just been a 20/20 special here and there, not every channel. If anything, it feels like it was undercovered.

I will admit the initial shock value wore off pretty quickly for me. And I'd say the same for most Americans. What about Air McNair!

As for the politician who made those remarks, there are former KKK members and Black Panther party members who have served as House Reps. Many of the house reps for particular districts are simply a joke. So I wouldn't put much stock into overblown, self-publicizing statements that one says.

People are celebrating the good that was in his life, not the bad. And for what it's worth, there's a chance he just never grew up and inside thought he was a little boy. Maybe people saw him as an oppurtunity to get rich by fabricating stories and suing him. Of course there's the other side of this now maybe he was a wack job. But he's gone now, so let's forget about the bad and concentrate on the good. I personally find the world to be a very depressing place and try to find the good in what I can.

Like for example making thundercats logos out of wood...

Either way he's allegedly dead and for a dead guy he IS getting a little too much attention. Other than that, I don't know and I don't want to know.

I agree with Peter King! In fact I was listening to this discussion on talk radio,..to say "well he was never convicted on it" must come from someone who forgets that fame and fortune DOES buy someone a ticket to freedom. It happened with OJ and T. Cullen Davis of Fort Worth. The sad part is is that it's taking time away from stories that truly matter right now, for example - what's going on in Iran and North Korea.

And when our own Speaker of the house is caught outright lying to the american people, does that get as much coverage as a pop stars death? NOoo..not even close.

Allegedly dead...lol? The county coroner just removed his brain. He'll be buried without it. If I remember correctly, everybody thought he was a pedophile, and a walking freak show. Now he's Saint Michael of LA. Only in America can a black man grow up to be a white woman, bugger some boys, (allegedly), and be celebrated in death on a level never seen before. On a side note, the most dangerous place to be is between Al Sharpton and a news camera!

Do I think Mr. Jackson's death has been getting too much media coverage? Absolutely. And I do not think you would get a lot of disagreement from most people. You want coverage? Try those late afternoon entertainment news shows or E! network. It is taking away from more important news like Iran, Honduras, and the riots in Xinjiang, China.

Not sure what political correctness has to do with any of this. Probably another politician trying to score point with his base. *yawn*

Im disgusted by the way people treated Michael he was an incredible human being,he personified what it was to be kind and compassionate,unjudging with an unshifting happiness no matter what anybody said or did to him. That kid he "molested" fessed up that Michael never touched him in any way its sad to see that it took his death for him to tell the truth. Theres a documentary that was released in 2002 called Living With Michael Jackson this guy went and lived with Michael and hung out with him and stuff like that and the whole time he asked him about his childhood and why he has all this kid stuff and acts like a kid and if you watch it you will understand why Michael Jackson loves children and wanted to make them happy

Well, this just goes to show how fickle the masses are. If you're a beloved celebrity and like children, all is forgiven, re: Michael Jackson, R. Kelly, Roman Polanski, Peter Townsend, and Rob Lowe.

But see the only thing that ruined him and ruined his life was this scandal it never happened so nothing is forgivin that never happened

Michael Jackson never had a childhood. His father would stand there with a belt while they were practicing and tear one of them up if they messed up. He had a brutal childhood and never did things we did as children. And society is so messed up because they say you can't be a kid forever and thats not true and Michael proved it

Just a couple thoughts.

Apparently, in our current society, if you are rich or famous you can kill people drunk in your car, you can slice and dice your ex and her boyfriend and you can be a walking freak show and diddle little boys and as long as you don't kill any dogs you'll be pretty much ok. Kill a dog, though and you're going to jail goddammit! We do have our standards.

Also, I wish everyone who is worshipping Jackson right now would ask themselves this question. If you take away all his fame and money. Imagine him as just Mike, the weird, 50 year old guy living down the street and working at the 7-11, taking young boys home for sleepovers and add a couple molestation charges. Would anyone really be upset if he was dead? Wouldn't you breath a little sigh of relief if he lived in your neighborhood around your kids?

Here's another thought...

If you just came down from some cave and had no idea what had happened the last month or so and I told you both Michael Jackson and David Caradine died, and I then told you that one of them died of cardiac arrest and the other died hanging in a closet with a rope tied around his junk, how many of you would have guessed which was which?

"Also, I wish everyone who is worshipping Jackson right now would ask themselves this question. If you take away all his fame and money. Imagine him as just Mike, the weird, 50 year old guy living down the street and working at the 7-11, taking young boys home for sleepovers and add a couple molestation charges. Would anyone really be upset if he was dead? Wouldn't you breath a little sigh of relief if he lived in your neighborhood around your kids?"

Hes been famous since he was a little kid if you took away his fame entirely from that time than things would be entrely different. He wouldn't be the same 50 year old guy. His childhood shaped him for the future his father made him the man he was. His father made him the greatest man this world has ever seen. Michael loved children and he made them happy because he never had that stuff when he was young. He never played for a little league team. he never rode a bike. He was always too busy making music and doing shows to have his own chiildhood. So he made his money,went off on his own and started his life over. He was living his life the way he always wanted to and hes a criminal for that? He wanted to play with children because he never got to when he was young. He never had sleep overs when he was young and when he had those kids sleepover his house they were never in the same bed with him. He always offered them the bed and he would sleep on the floor.

People are ignorant and prejudice. Look at all the Ice cream truck workers and amusement park owners. Are they sick pedophiles? Are clowns that do birthday parties sick men? Are they pedophiles? He had the money to make kids happy and to make all there dreams and fantasies come true and thats all he wanted to do because he never had that when he was young.

"People are ignorant and prejudice. Look at all the Ice cream truck workers and amusement park owners. Are they sick pedophiles?"

I think there's a difference here. They don't sleep with little boys. They don't butcher their faces until they look like the Joker from Batman.

I'm one of a kind - it's way more than just "ONE scandal" - it's a pattern of reoccurring accusations over the course of decades or so. It's also actions like, hiring a "close friend" to film kids at the neverland ranch, only for it to come out later that this guy use to be a gay porn producer! When it came out that this is a guy who use to literally go to eastern European countries in search of young looking males for his porn videos, Michael Jackson said in statement that they are severing ties with him. ..only for this guy to be brought back a year later as Michael Jacksons personal videographer! In fact I'm one of a kind, THIS is the guy who filmed that program you're talking about! ..after Michael knew what he did, he put him again in direct contact with kids, and privately considered him a friend.

So the facts:

1. Decades worth of accusations of child molestation.
2. Rather than defending AGAINST these accusations (what innocent adult wouldn't!?!) he paid them to shut up.
3. Consider people like Marc Schaffel (the gay porn producer) your friend, and see nothing wrong with providing him access to kids (boys).


You have to wonder what would of happened if, rather than paying accusers of child molestation off, he dedicated some of his money towards fighting them off and clearing his reputation. I can't understand someone innocent letting an accusation like that go,,combined with all the other things..how could someone think he is innocent? How many more dots do people need?

"I think there's a difference here. They don't sleep with little boys. They don't butcher their faces until they look like the Joker from Batman."

No there is no differnce they do the same thing he was trying to do MAKE THEM HAPPY thats all Michael wanted to do and nothing more.

Im also sickened that its so wrong to change your appearance no matter how drastic it is. Why do you care that he was changing the way he looked? He hated his face because his father made fun of him when he was younger.

And im not using it as an excuse but look at his music. People around the world look past the lies and the mainstream media because they know that he had a rough childhood and they understood what he went through but its people that write the slander about him that don't understand. His music was phenominal and everbody who was anybody loved him and he influenced many of todays R&B artists. Without Michael there would be no Usher or Ne-Yo and they are two of the biggest names in R&B today theres countless others who were influenced by Michael. EVEN my Messiah Buckethead was influenced by Michael Jackson because Buckethead himself didn't have much of a childhood either. Do you think hes insane for having an obsession with chickens? Do you think hes insane for enjoying horror movies like somebody would a comedy film? When he has an interview he talks in third person with a hand puppet is he insane? Again look at his music and what he has done for it.

This is Chris Rock's take, (hysterical). The standard language warnings apply.....

Alsoo,, I'm one of a kind, do you really think he went through childhood thinking "God! I really just want to have a sleep over!" but since he was unable to, he dedicated his whole adult life to it? Come on..many many other kids also had abusive parents and didn't get to have a childhood (my mother is a great example), and guess what..they sort of outgrow those childhood things.

(I can't believe I'm saying this but) When people reach puberty, certain hormonal changes happen that makes then..ready for love. The fact that Michael SURROUNDED himself with young boys, and items that young boys would flock to, says a lot, and is what separates him from the ice cream truck driver or clown.

Michael is more akin to an icecream truck driver who goes out of his way to serve to only young boys, then goes home a house inundated with items young boys would find appealing. Oh, and then he offers some of the young boys the opportunity to spend the night with him in his room, where he offers them alcohol. ..And then when he has a friend come over, it's a guy who use to produce something close to child pornography. THAT is Michael Jackson.

Now that he's dead, I think more and more will come out about MJ's personal activity, and not just from people looking to make a buck. Jackson meets every cop's criteria of a pedophile.

"Alsoo,, I'm one of a kind, do you really think he went through childhood thinking "God! I really just want to have a sleep over!" but since he was unable to, he dedicated his whole adult life to it? Come on..many many other kids also had abusive parents and didn't get to have a childhood (my mother is a great example), and guess what..they sort of outgrow those childhood things.

(I can't believe I'm saying this but) When people reach puberty, certain hormonal changes happen that makes then..ready for love. The fact that Michael SURROUNDED himself with young boys, and items that young boys would flock to, says a lot, and is what separates him from the ice cream truck driver or clown.

Michael is more akin to an icecream truck driver who goes out of his way to serve to only young boys, then goes home a house inundated with items young boys would find appealing. Oh, and then he offers some of the young boys the opportunity to spend the night with him in his room, where he offers them alcohol. ..And then when he has a friend come over, it's a guy who use to produce something close to child pornography. THAT is Michael Jackson."

He surrounded himself with these things because he never had those things when he was younger. He never did what kids his age did and he wanted to. He just wanted to be a child. You only grow up when you want to and he never wanted to.

"Apparently, in our current society, if you are rich or famous you can kill people drunk in your car, you can slice and dice your ex and her boyfriend and you can be a walking freak show and diddle little boys and as long as you don't kill any dogs you'll be pretty much ok. Kill a dog, though and you're going to jail goddammit! We do have our standards."

That's the way it is everywhere. And it's more about the $ than the fame. Joe Jamail is not famous like Donte Stallworth or OJ Simpson per se but he's got a lot more $ than both of them put together. He can hire the best lawyer there is (even though he's a lawyer himself) and you'd better believe he'll get a better deal in court than Joe Shmuck who's represented by some public defender who took 4 times to pass the Florida state bar.

That's the way life is. People who work hard and make sacrifices to become rich and powerful have certain advantages the rest of us don't. It's unfair, but not more so than a lot of other things in life.

Did you read my previous post about the people he hung out with? Sorry to pull this but..I think you're young and very naive.

I am young but im not the least bit naive

I read it and I disregard it because it was not just boys that he hung out with. Girls went and stayed over his house also.

Also he hung out with boys because when were young we hang out with the people we understand GUYS exactly what we are. If you hung out with girls your whole life you might come out gay because you don't know much about the opposite sex and are interested. If you watched the documentary as I have you will see that he says he sees the innocence in children and that he sees God in the face of children. He was doing a good thing for our world but everybody had a "Thats weird were not changing" attitude but it wasn't strange it was just something they weren't use to. Parents these days prepare kids for the "real world" where life is tough and its every man for himself but honestly the world is what we make it and I think Michael made it amazing. "Love me or hate me thats your choice but I still love you no matter what because we are equal human beings" Michael lived by that code and he believed it with the biggest passion. He had the biggest heart i've ever seen in a person and nobody ever noticed it like I did.

Hey!!! Long time no see! I'm back....Anyway, Michael Jackson will be tributed for his art in this country despite whether or not it is true about him being a pedophile..Well, he's got issues and that's all I know for sure..He was a talented mofo and he also grew up in a spot light so that could contribute to the strangeness that was Michael. I do think he may have been because he had that amusement park etc. which is kinda sick so yeah, he may have been but we really have no evidence...just accusations..

What about how he died? I heard he owes the pharmacy 100k..So was it a standard heart attack or OD? I don't know. This all could lead to another conversation about separating the art from the artist...Does it matter, well yeah, if he did it he shouldn't be recognized and tributed however you cannot deny his talent either...I guess I remain subjective because deep down I think he may have but because I have no proof I try not to pass judgement on here say. No matter what you cannot deny that so many artists are scrutinized because they have money. You have to admit, some of those allegations were about money and were not in fact criminal charges...some were but no evidence other than how he appears to us.

Bottomline, It's much easier for us to label him a pedophile merely because of the way he looks and acts etc. but none of us actually knew him.I say, yeah he's a freak but great artist and leave it at that until we know for sure..

Exactly don't look at him for all the news stuff.

Look at him as the man who broke the all time world wide record sales with not one but four albums

Heres the Michael your all missing out on ->

ah great. that's why this country's going nowhere. cuz all our politicians are too busy watching TV instead of concentrating on infrastructure....

Yeah, because putting a man such as Marc Schaffel right INSIDE a park FULL of children is coming from someone who "sees God in childrens faces" and "just wants them to be happy."

I suppose this makes sense to you: "God I absolutely love these children and would never hurt them! I KNOW WHAT I SHOULD DO! I Should have my friend who used to make child porn film them!!!!"

What logic does that make? Seriously, answer it.

I'm sorry but you're INCREDIBLY naive! It's okay, because we all start that way..it's only through interacting with people and experiencing life that you start to,,change. In the real world "monsters" don't look like "monsters" at all. Nobody knew what Ted Bundy was capable of until that moment when you were alone with him and he was turning on YOU. You remind me of those people sitting in court looking at him saying, "NO, he couldn't of done that! Look how nice he talks and dresses. He's a very smart man, there's no way he would of strangled all those women." It's the exact same thing.

I remember when OJ Simpson walked off his double murder charge. This guy right next to me started cheering because his favorite football player got off. The fact that someone can see past a double murder or child molestation and cheer on someone because they wrote a hit song or scored a bunch of yards, makes me nauseous.

I love how irrational your getting about this subject.

You went from saying the former GAY porn photographer to the CHILD porn photographer.

And do you think he did gay porn because he likes men and because he likes to see that? Why wasn't he in his own films? Its for the money. Michael was a multi billionare and I think Schaffel knew that. And on top of that you are again looking at it in the wrong perspective. Michael didn't choose him based on the fact he did photography for gay porn he chose him based on the fact he was well known for his PHOTOGRAPHY be it gay or not. As you said Michael chose him and later was told that he did gay porn photography i think if Michael knew it sooner he may not have chosen him.

And how you can sum up Jackson based on what Schaffel did and his expirience is ignorant and misguided. That must make Schaffel a pedophile too right? Your telling me if Michael came to you and said ill pay you $50,000 to film me playing in my park with these children wouldn't you do it?

The guy haunted european countries looking for very young looking men who still looked like boys to do porn films. I don't think I should have to guide you to which direction that's pointing (ie - child pornography). That's just finding a way to make it "legal." A guy like that would NEVER get anywhere near any of my kids (when my wife and I decide to have them).

How is that getting irrational? Do you really think the guy putting it together and filming it, and making them seem like 10 year old boys is different (maybe a bit smarter) than the guy actually going out and simply filming the kids? Sorry, but I don't see a distinction.

Keep in mind, this isn't just a "gay porn" director. He purposely went out seeking the youngest looking (based on testimonials of people who've seen it, not me!) "men." If you read what I said, Michael hired him and still considered him a friend AFTER he knew this jerks history. He knew he filmed situations where the "men" looked like boys.

I'm NOT summing up Michael based on this alone. As I said before, this is what I'm summing him up on (otherwise known as his ACTIONS)



1. Decades worth of accusations of child molestation.
2. Rather than defending AGAINST these accusations (what innocent adult wouldn't!?!) he paid them to shut up.
3. Consider people like Marc Schaffel (the gay porn producer) your friend, and see nothing wrong with providing him access to kids (boys).

If you cared to watch the damn documentary i've been trying to press to your knowledge than you would understand all that stuff and it was ONE decade from 93' to 2003'

And again your looking at it in a wrong perspective. What about all the straight porn thats out there thats a man and a woman. They don't go out looking for saggy old ladies to do films they find young good looking women to do it. Its the same concept in a reverse view. Its a guy looking for a guy to make a film with another guy. Well it may be a girl looking for a girl to do a film with a guy. Same concept. Its all for one purpose to make a movie that will SELL and make MONEY he did all that not for his own sick pleasure but because he needed the money and thats what our world is revolved around nowadays. Michael said in the documentary that he didn't want a long drawn out case like OJ had he wanted to get it done and over with. And if you go on Youtube theres a clip of his trial which shows each verdict being read off on national news as Not Guilty. I guess he paid the judge the jury and every person around the world to keep there mouth shut right? Wheres my cut? Exactly he reached a settlement with the one family that said it and thats the same kid that fessed up to him never doing it. Too bad its too damn late.

And the "shocker" that revealed his kids weren't really his didn't stir up any thoughts at all? He had those children,those little boys sleeping in his bed for many years when everybody thought they were his kids but now that we know there not his kids why aren't we going all apeshit over it? Why aren't we saying that he touched those little boys inappropriately? He loved all children like his own and I know he would never do that to any kids but since they werent his kids it wasnt okay but oh wait what about the people who knew his kids werent his? Why didnt they step in? Why didn't they think he was abusing his children sexually?

You are so naive! If 9 dots are forming a straight line but one is missing in the middle, do you REALLY need it to be filled in to see the rest form a straight line? I hate to jump to this cliche, but "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,..it probably is a duck." If someones accused of being a pedophile, considers an all but convicted pedophile a close friend, invites kids to sleep in his room,,he probably is a pedophile.

So I'm, you're saying the 10-12 age range is considered "attractive" now? And that all porn directors try to get that target age range? I don't watch a lot of porn, but I don't think that's the case..

..and stop trying to say the guy did it for money, not because he liked the idea. You don't know that. I know there's many other ways to make money than filming 12 year old boys doing each other on camera. And believe it or not, some men do get off to that..it's not a stretch to believe the guy who dreamed it up and made it happen, just happens to be one of those sickos.

And guilty rich/famous people get off all the time. I swear I named a few in a prior post. I've SEEN the documentaries, I know what he said. What ELSE would he say? If you wanna see the most horrendous circus trial where the judge and jury got swept off their feet by fortune/fame, look up the T. Cullen Davis case. The way the law works - you have a defense attorney who wants to receive his million dollar paycheck, and who will literally say/ do ANYTHING to get it. His name and reputation grow as a result,..plus he gets the million dollar paycheck. It's not simply "bribing the judge/jury."

....... ...

Your the most ignorant person i've ever argued with.

Your looking at it in the perspective of "sleeping with=sex" which is very untrue. Michael looked at it as a comfort thing. He was an incredible man and did amazing things for young people but because your an adult you don't understand it as I do. You don't see Michael in my perspective. I watch the news and I see all these false charges and I see how badly it was destroying him. I didn't know him personally but I know he wasn't that way based on his reactions and his stories about his childhood. He was robbed of his childhood and he wanted to make sure every kid got to do what he never did and give them the love and compassion he never had. And if thats being a criminal than fucking lock me up cause i've shown just as much compassion and love for everybody than Michael has.

Im gonna throw this bit at you. I love women. Everything about them is amazing okay? So don't get confused about what im going to say. Lets say theres a boy in my town who doesn't have a father and his mom doesnt care much for him. Lets say I meet him at the camp I work at. I run around with him and the other children and when its time for the kids to go and there parents come to get them his mom doesnt show up. So I ask him where mommy and daddy are. He tells me his daddy left him when he was just a baby and that his mom doesnt care about him. I say omg ill bring you home and have a talk with her and he says no no I cant go home or mommy will beat me and she wont feed me. So I tell him ill bring him to my house for dinner. So we go to my house have dinner and all that and I ask him if hes ready to go home and he says no because he doesnt sleep at night because his mom makes him sleep on the dusty living room floor so I say okay well you can have my bed and ill sleep on the couch. So he goes and he sleeps in my bed and I fall asleep on the couch. He wakes up screaming and hollering and I go running into my room and ask him whats wrong. He tells me that he had a nightmare and hes scared that the "monsters" are gonna get him. I tell him that I can keep the light on and he can try to sleep again and he says no can you come and sleep in the bed with me. I say if it will help you sleep than yes. So I get into bed with him and sleep the whole night with him next to me.

Does that make me a pedophile? Am I a sick man for doing that? Am I a sick man for giving a child what he doesn't normally have? Lets say the next day he doesnt want to go home but he lets his mom know where hes at (remember she doesnt care) so he stays at my house again. We watch movies,play with stuff he brings over,etc etc. and that night he asks me to sleep with him again. And I say okay but your gonna have to learn to be a big boy. So I sleep next to him again. Does that make me a pedophile? Am I wrong in doing that? No im doing it in the kindness and love in my heart because I know that he just wants to be a kid.

And the really sad thing is that we have problems with North Korea and Iran. Congress and our illustrious president are trying to pass the cap and trade laws and nationalized health care that will hasten the destruction of our economy and whats the big news???

Michael fucking Jackson. If we worried half as much about how badly the gov't is trying to screw us instead of MJ or American Idol maybe we wouldn't go under as a nation quite as quickly.

I'm - wth are you talking about? Let's stay on topic here and with reality. I think the problem is is that you're too young and inexperienced. Eventually you'll learn that just because someone stands in front of you and looks you in the eye, swears all up and down and puts up a whole dramatic front, it doesn't mean they're telling you the truth. The best indicator of a person is who they hang around with and their history. We've discussed both of these with regard to Michael. They're not good.

You said something about me being too old (even though I'm just mid 20s) to understand Michael, and that it takes a kid like you to understand him. WRONG. In no way does a child understand a 50 year old man.

What you're doing is projecting your feelings and intentions into Michaels shoes. WRONG. Another thing you'll learn as you grow up is not to be so self centered (don't take it personal, we were all like that). For example in your story, while you may not get aroused lying next to your little friend there, another man may. So your thought experiment is null and void..

Another thing, while YOU may interpret some meaning based on Michaels reactions - it doesn't mean it exists, or even is reality. It's simply YOUR interpretation. Stop projecting yourself into his head.

As I said, the best indicator of a man is his history and who he considers friends, NOT "oh he had this sad look, you could tell it really hurt him!" That's called being gullible , or plainly put - stupid!

Amen Erk! All this coverage is pretty sad..

Hey, don't insult the Joker.

it was well known and documented that Elvis was an alcoholic and a big time pill popper when he died. but that was disregarded as well. as did michael, elvis had millions and millions of hardcore fans around the world. his death IS big news and will invariably get big coverage regardless of his oddities. his fans want to know ALL the particulars. and the rest of the world is interested in where the money will go and what drugs he ingested. diprivan???...odd right up to the very end.

i was never a big fan of jackson, but knowing the particulars of his death is of some mild interest. of much bigger interest to the masses. i was never a big elvis fan but i can appreciate all the interest surrounding his death. it was HUGE news. simple as that. and the news coverage is just as big ALL AROUND THE GLOBE. NOT just in the U.S.....so there simply is NO avoiding all the coverage. it's just makes for a bigger news story than what is going on in iran. even though the iranian situation is a bigger news story, most average citizens simply don't have the same interest in that story.

there was MORE interest in the death of farrah fawcett that what north korea did. SOOOOOO her story has grabbed some more headlines. the news will always go after what is considered the more interesting story. regardless of the it's importance in the world view. if bill gates died tommorow, it would get more coverage that n korea, iran, palin, etc. all put together. that's just the ways the news is. high profile celebrity deaths just always seems to galvinize people's interests. it's ALWAYS been that way. this is NOT some NEW kind of development. so to be SHOCKED at all the coverage of michael is really kind of silly. maybe of more interest, to me anyways, is the number of celebrity deaths in the last 3 weeks. it's been more than just 3's. farrah, billy mays, karl mulden,MJ, ed mcman ,etc. just the fact that there is an "etc." is kind of interesting. seems like they are dropping like flies.

john lennon had a hell of a lot of enemies, many or most on the right considered him nothing more that a communist "pinko". but his death was another gigantic news story which got a ton of coverage. NOT because of his personal living standards....but because of his celebrity. because he had millions and millions and millions of fans around the world. because he was SO high profile. and the news organizations knew this and provided massive coverage of it. to the point that i'm sure many were just simply sick of seeing it. but it WAS news. so the coverage was there. there simply was NO avoiding it.

you may or may not have liked M J. you may or may not have believed the charges that were brought against him. and you may not even believe he's dead(i suppose you think he's on the same island with elvis, janis joplin, jimi hendrx, and the rest) but good or bad, his death is STILL a big news stroy and the coverage will continue for some time. that's just the way it is....

Bach, I totally agree with nearly everything you said.

The one thing I don't agree with is this [referring to news coverage of John Lennon's death]: "to the point that I'm sure many were just simply sick of seeing it." This would probably apply to Elvis as well. When these men died there were not 9 billion channels (who are all trying to cover it) and there were not 24 hour news networks who all had their own web pages to supplement their on-air content. I think that everything that happens now gets run into the ground because of the sheer number of media sources we have to choose from.
From a channel-flipper's point of view (which is where I am coming from) it starts to become overwhelming. However, as someone who appreciates history I relish these sorts of things and try to experience them as a bystander from a historical perspective as much as I can. I can remember my parents telling me every detail about when they heard that JFK got shot. They can remember where they were, what they were doing and everything. From an early age, this fascinated me and, as a result, I tend to take in everything I can about historical events so that I can tell the same sorts of stories to my children when they ask.

To me its sickening the way people judged him without really knowing him. Im not arguing for personal feelings im just sick of seeing people treated terribly because somethings not right in there mind. If it was such a big issue than why even after he was accused did people let there kids go over his house? Im done arguing because obviously I cant change any of your perspectives on this. To me Michael was an incredible man. To me Michael was the personification of what this world needed not in the sense of "boy loving" but in the sense of equalness and faith in the youth of this country to change it for the better even when you've all passed. He belived we were all equal no matter what color you were. He had incredible love and compassion that i don't think anybody can ever show again. But thats just me.

Man, you really have a lot to learn in life..

Maybe..

You look at me as this naive kid who doesn't know what hes talking about but I really do. Each and every word is thought out and put down on purpose. I know what im thinking. I've seen and heard about all this stuff and to me its getting old. Michael this Michael that just leave the poor man alone hes gone now let him Rest In Peace don't try to prove something that will never be proven. I admit its the same with me. We both have opinions and were sticking by them but the fact of the matter is neither of us have legitamate proof of anything either of us have said. So I think we should just end it here.

I'm good with ending this. The thing is, is that I don't think you need to literally see the only man in the room with a full jar of cookies eating them in order to come to the conclusion that he did it. Sometimes you have to draw out conclusions after looking at all the facts, because having the idea that you have to literally see every crime in action is not realistic. So I'm not going to say it's "just an opinion." You know you're arguing from a bad position when you have to ignore fact after fact, and come up with your own motives for a persons actions. The truth is that you don't need to. A persons actions speak for them self..so let them. We know Michaels actions, now lets combine it with this:

"Characteristics of a Pedophile :

* Often the pedophile is male and over 30 years of age.
* Single or with few friends in his age group.
* If married, the relationship is more "companion" based with no sexual relations.
* He is often vague about time gaps in employment which may indicate a loss in employment for questionable reasons or possible past incarceration.

Pedophiles Like Child-like Activities:

* He is often fascinated with children and child activities appearing to prefer those activities to adult oriented activities.
* He will often refer to children in pure or angelic terms using descriptives like innocent, heavenly, divine, pure, and other words that describe children but seem inappropriate and exaggerated.
* He has hobbies that are child-like such as collecting popular expensive toys, keeping reptiles or exotic pets, or building plane and car models.

Pedophiles Often Prefer Children Close to Puberty:

* Pedophiles often have a specific age of child they target. Some prefer younger children, some older.
* Often his environment or a special room will be decorated in child-like decor and will appeal to the age and sex of the child he is trying to entice.
* Many pedophiles often prefer children close to puberty who are sexually inexperienced, but curious about sex.


Pedophiles Work Around Children:
The pedophile will often be employed in a position that involves daily contact with children. If not employed, he will put himself in a position to do volunteer work with children, often in a supervisory capacity such as sports coaching, contact sport instruction, unsupervised tutoring or a position where he has the opportunity to spend unsupervised time with a child.

The Target Child:
The pedophile often seeks out shy, handicapped, and withdrawn children, or those who come from troubled homes or under privileged homes. He then showers them with attention, gifts, taunting them with trips to desirable places like amusement parks, zoo's, concerts, the beach and other such places.

Manipulation of the Innocent:
Pedophiles work to master their manipulative skills and often unleash them on troubled children by first becoming their friend, building the the child's self esteem. They may refer to the child as special or mature, appealing to their need to be heard and understood then entice them with adult type activities that are often sexual in content such as x-rated movies or pictures. They offer them alcohol or drugs to hamper their ability to resist activities or recall events that occurred.

Stockholm Syndrome :
It is not unusual for the child to develop feelings for the predator and desire their approval and continued acceptance. They will compromise their innate ability to decipher good and bad behavior, ultimately justifying the criminal's bad behavior out of sympathy and concern for the adults welfare. This is often compared to Stockholm Syndrome - when victims become attached emotionally to their captors. "

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,,..

He made Thriller Man!!!! Thriller!

All these people showing up at Jackson's funeral/memorial/freak-show...whatever. The only thing they're there for is the photo op and to advance their own carrier. None of these people would even acknowledge him when he was alive, and I can't say I blame them for that. Now they sing praises to him. What a joke! We have people over in the Middle East, a diving economy, high unemployment, and a billion other issues to worry about, but we drone on about Peter Pan all day. This is my last post concerning this little freak. I have a feeling it's going to be all I can do to get away from the coverage of this perv for the next month or so. You think he's a misunderstood genius, I think he's a damned child molester and we aren't going to change each other's minds. Just let it go!

I have read a few of your posts in this discussion David and you are projecting your thoughts on someone that you have no idea if he did these things or not, (but if it walks like a duck and blah blah it must be a duck! How fucking stupid is that!) based on accusations (never proven) and this one persons looks! I am a father and if my kids said some bloke played with them sexually there is no money in this world that could make me stop court proceedings! Now you might say that is easy for me to say because I haven't been in that situation ( you may not), but you do not know me or what I have been through and can't judge me.

You said to I'm One Of A Kind;
"For example in your story, while you may not get aroused lying next to your little friend there, another man may. So your thought experiment is null and void."

Your argument is also null and void then by saying that YOU believe Michael Jackson also gets sexually aroused! Is that because you might? Just because other grown men would does not mean all would, Michael Jackson included! I sleep with my children, does that make me a pedophile? Of course it doesn't.
Oh but wait they are my children and these boys weren't Micheal's, plus he looks like a freak and lives alone and fits the profile perfectly. How fucking flawed is that profile by the way!? Oh but experts have said that is the typical profile, well then tell that to my fucking Grandfather! He in no way fits that profile you put up but he is a pedophile and has been for 50 years and by God I wish that arse hole was dead. If you were to meet him not knowing what I know and the rest of my family know you would say he is the most decent bloke you have ever met.


I am a grown man, married and we have 5 children, both my wife and I truly believe MJ never did any of these things he has been accused of. Would we let our children stay with him? If we knew him then probably yes based on what has been portrayed in the media over the last 30 years and coming to our own conclusions, we don't know him though ONLY WHAT THE MEDIA TELLS US! Many people agree with your thoughts but also many people don't, so accept that.

You say the best indicator of a man is his history and who he considers friends. I am sorry this is the biggest load of crap I have so far seen you write!
I think you, David and many other people have a lot to learn in life and not be so quick to judge people based on what the media has said. You knew Michael Jackson as well as I'm One Of A Kind did and most of the world did but are ready to convict him based on the duck! I hope you never become a juror at any trial in the history of the world to come. Jurors and courts looked at facts, judged Michael on facts and he was acquitted by a court of law and not by the court of media/public belief. Yes he paid of the first one to go away but did you notice he never made that mistake again! He learned his lesson and took it all the way and was innocent in the eyes of the court. You want to convict someone based on a flawed profile and the fact he looks like a freak due to having had plastic surgery then heaven help us all!

I'm One Of A Kind please, please keep your beliefs and live true to them for the rest of your life and don't let people "wiser" than you tell you otherwise. They are not always right.


you can flame me, you can take away all my web credits I don't care but you can not judge me based on how YOU think people should behave!

What? I never said anything about his looks, that's just stupid, don't put words in my mouth.

Your grandfather may not fit the profile, but guess what? MOST DO! That's why it's a PROFILE. Nothings going to fit every single situation. And stop with this stupid "I sleep with my kids, does that make me a pedophile?"..that's idiotic and missing the point.

"You say the best indicator of a man is his history and who he considers friends. I am sorry this is the biggest load of crap I have so far seen you write!"

How so? Answer that..what do you judge a man on, if not his HISTORY, and who he hangs around with? ..his looks? what he says?..how he dresses? ..if he has long hair/tattoos?

"Jurors and courts looked at facts, judged Michael on facts and he was acquitted by a court of law and not by the court of media/public belief."

There are many many other cases where this is not true. I named a few I believe where a guilty man was let off,,it happens! If you don't believe it's possible one of the richest/famous men in the world could of influenced the jury (because of people like you who say "oh, he couldn't of done it! It's MICHAEL JACKSON!") AND with the help of a high priced defense attorney,,you obviously haven't studied other cases! These 2 factors HAVE HAD AN INCREDIBLE AFFECT on the court in past cases. Both the OJ & T. Cullen Davis cases SHOW it happening. If you're unaware of the detail of either of those, well you have no business responding to this claim.

"you can flame me, you can take away all my web credits I don't care but you can not judge me based on how YOU think people should behave!"

God you're dramatic..

Bottom line: My children will NEVER spend the night with a grown, single man regardless of what he looks like or who his friends are or whatever fun things he has on his ranch. Just the idea of any kids doing that gives the wrong impression and opens up to many posibilities of accusations whether they are true or not. If the children were never put in the situation in the first place, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Just don't let your kids spend the night with grown, single men and it won't even come up.
The problem is when you let your kids spend the night with their child friends or a relative and something happens.
As for me, I have a 13 (about to be 14) year old daughter. I NEVER EVER spend ANY time alone with ANY of her friends at ANY time. There are ways to protect yourself from such allegations and in today's world (where you seem to be guilty until proven innocent when it comes to things like that) a man has to take things like that into account. Just don't put yourself into a situation where you can be accused and you will have nothing to worry about.

i didnt read every post so forgive me if im behind, but here is what i think of michael jackson:

1. he was a very talented entertainer, no question about it. even though im not big on that style of music, he had
several songs that i liked.


2. he may or may not have been a child molester, and im not sure if, or how, the general public will ever have a way of
knowing for certain.

3. he was a self made freak who started out looking like a regular guy, and ended up looking like an alien from outer
space.

4. he will be, and should be, remembered as a great entertainer, but he will also be remembered as a weirdo, and i
dont feel sorry for him because he brought it on himself. (freakish-extreme plastic surgery)

5. if he was indeed a child molester, then im glad he's dead because he deserved the electric chair anyway.


6. if he was not really a child molester, then it's a shame that many will remember him for that.

as far as the media coverage is concerned, i havent watched much of it but i have seen it on many channels for hours at a time. it does seem like a bit much, but i guess there are lots of people who want to watch.

he is dead, and nothing can be done about it. i choose to remember him for who he was, instead of who he became. he was a great preformer, and he will be missed.

Fara whats her face died too, so did Billy Mayes, I honestly give more of a damn about one of them..

There are soldiers who fighting and dieing for our country, but I suppose they are each not that important.................

OH WAIT Micheal Jackson died? raise the roof,call the news, ring the fucking bells, mass media coverage, lets fuel a pointless thing, lets get some money going! make some shows about MJ, songs, death coverage the works baby!

pssf , I don't give a flying fuck about this guy, hes dead,great other people are dieing too little kids,homeless people, soliders, what else is new? MJ BABY NOW that is worth wasting time over bend me over for that ONE OH YEAH

I like his music,hes dead, the end, have a nice day.

PS, that was just my 2 cents don't take it personal if you dont like, like I said dont take it personal

How about Shane hows that guy doing dont see a fucking thread for him?

This country pisses me off sometimes, I love it, to be able to do the things I do, but sometimes........

"You say that MOST do and whats to say MJ was apart of that most? If he was a pedophile than he would have been tried as one I don't think any amount of money could keep the public misinformed for so long I figure somebody might have slipped eventually or told the truth even after they got there money? "

Have you been reading the posts? I've said many times you have to take in ALL of the facts into consideration..if a person has suspicious actions with a child, has a decade worth of accusations from many different kids, AND just happens to fit the personality profile, .. do you think it's fair to suspect that MORE than likely, this person did the action?

It's like having 2 people alone in a room with a corpse, and one of the guys has 10 years worth of accusations of attempted murder, considers serial killers his friends, and dedicated his lifestyle to the serial killer culture (idk), AND just happens to fit the personality profile of a serial killer. The other guy has a clean history. Would you go into that scenario suspecting that it's MORE THAN LIKELY the guy with the obsession did the crime, verses the guy who was clean? I think yeah, it's fair to suspect one above the other in that scenario.

Michael:

1. A decade worth of accustions.
2. Put himself continually in questionable situations with kids.
3. Considered a guy his friend who made something akin to gay child porn.
4. Put this man in DIRECT CONTACT with kids, even after knowing his history.
5. Fits the personality profile almost 100% for a pedophile.
+ Whatever else i'm forgetting.

IDK whats happening with the kid (kids). If you read the profile I posted, you'll read how pedophiles work. They look for specific targets, they use tactics such as building up the childs ego and making them believe that you're truly their buddy. There's something called "Stockholm Syndrome" that develops, so the child thinks something like " This guy is cool, I don't want to get him in trouble, so I'll keep quiet." The children also said Michael gave them alcohol,,that's ANOTHER tactic pedophiles will use. Plus Pedophiles truly believe that what they're doing isn't wrong. Think about that statement...


I feel like I'm just repeating myself..

"It's like having 2 people alone in a room with a corpse, and one of the guys has 10 years worth of accusations of attempted murder, considers serial killers his friends, and dedicated his lifestyle to the serial killer culture (idk), AND just happens to fit the personality profile of a serial killer. The other guy has a clean history. Would you go into that scenario suspecting that it's MORE THAN LIKELY the guy with the obsession did the crime, verses the guy who was clean? I think yeah, it's fair to suspect one above the other in that scenario. "

But thats where somebody can take the accusations and use them to there advantage

I would suspect them equally if not more so the guy whos clean because if the guy whos clean knows what the other guy did he couldve killed em and pointed the finger at the other guy even if hes innocent. I think these parents saw that he was accused,pointed the finger and thought they were gonna cash in but I guess once again justice prevailed

"..but I guess once again justice prevailed"

Yeah, just like in the T. Cullen Davis case I suppose. That's a clear case where the jury and judge were too busy swooning over the richest man in town to do their job, and a defense attorney who would say anything to get his $2 million paycheck. Let's not even go over OJ. As I said before, you're just like the people sitting in court looking at Ted Bundy saying "There's no way HE did that! He's educated, intelligent, handsome, well liked, he would NEVER strangle those women!" You're just like them.

I'm getting sick of repeating myself.

No im not just like them because OJ went to jail. That other guy....who is he? and there supposed to have an unbiased jury. Obviously it was filled with more people like me .

"No im not just like them because OJ went to jail."

Ugh, I'm done. There's a quote that's something like "those who don't study history are destined to repeat it," PLEASE I'm one, do some reading!

I'll give you a link on Cullen Davis, it's pretty sickening what happened with him. It happened in the 70s in Texas, here's an actual quote from the guy:

"I was able to pay for what I needed to be found not guilty," he said in 2000. "If I had not had the money to hire the people I hired to investigate what went on and everything that we used and needed, I might have been sitting in prison right now."

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/not_guilty/t_cullen_davis/index.html

So yeah, fortune + fame influencing a jury HAS happened in the past. Is it really so hard to believe it could happen again? I don't think so..

Come on guys....OJ didn't REALLY do it!.....right?......right?....maybe?.....ok nevermind

Let me just say that Im one of a kind is a defense attorney's dream juror. I believe that if he were in the jury, you could call the defendant as a witness and ask him if he did it. The defendant of course would say no and despite all the evidence piled up against the defendant, Im one of a kind would be the one juror who would vote not guilty simply because the guy said he didn't do it.

I think it's histerical that among all the great music MJ created over the years you guys are focused on MAKING him a perv. He was acquited of all wrong doing, beyond a reasonable doubt, by a judge, jury, and in a trial that was extremely public....and a public that seemed to want the allegations to be true?

When I was kid I liked MJ. Thriller was a sensational record, perhaps one of the records that brought me into music....a gateway drug to heavy metal guitar (Remember Eddie Van Halen was the guitarist and his solo on 'beat it' he recalls as his best). At the end of the day, and a career, he made a lot of good music. He also made a lot of money, and with that kind of success a lot of greedy people wanted a piece anyway they could get it, including his family. The man was a cultural icon who achieved a degree of fame and success we truly can not relate to, nor fathom what consequence that played in the eccentricism that resulted. Clearly he had, and still does have, an international following to which his music is tied to the soundtrack of their lives.

"I think it's histerical that among all the great music MJ created over the years you guys are focused on MAKING him a perv."

God, read the thread. Michael did that job himself. We didn't make him do ANYTHING, we're only stating his actions. Did we hold a gun to his head and make him consider a guy who made something extremely close to child porn his friend? No. Did we make up the decade worth of allegations? No. Did we make up the personality profile of a pedophile (that he somehow nearly 100 %fits)? No. Did we make him give a minor alcohol? No. Did we make him constantly put himself in questionable positions with minors? No.

Sounds like Michael was the only one in control of Michael - not us.

Lol Sallan - so I like debate. I don't know if spending 2-3 days talking about Michael on this single thread (which I didn't start btw, and only replied because of some misinformed statements) qualifies as "excessive." I've had tons of free time lately, so shoot me.

It's not JUST allegations alone, which I already mentioned in previous posts numerous times. The media is irrelevant, I'm simply talking about what MICHAEL HIMSELF HAS DONE. I think I had a 1-5 or so rundown of some of his actions, when that's taken into account along side the allegations, you have to wonder...notice, it's not JUST allegations alone, as you claim!

And dude! If you've READ the posts, you would of saw direct reference to TWO cases where fortune/fame has had a direct influence in the courtroom!

I keep intending to leave, but then someone says something that draws me back, kinda annoying.

"4. Put this man in DIRECT CONTACT with kids, even after knowing his history. ---no facts there whatsover to support your allegation, this is all in your head."


"Well, a year later, Schaffel was back at Neverland and again acting as Jackson’s personal videographer who chronicled the taping of the famous Martin Bashir BBC documentary that later appeared on ABC in the U.S., which centered around two young brothers hanging with Jackson and Schaffel as their ‘chaperones’ at the creepy amusement park cum bachelor pad.

Why did Michael Jackson bring back the gay porno producer to use a video camera to oversee kid trips to Neverland AFTER it was admitted by Jackson’s own people the Jackson/Schaffel alliance was blatantly improper?"

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/abreitbart/2009/06/26/a-monster-of-our-own-making-is-dead-and-im-mildly-sad%E2%80%8F/#more-171986

michael Jackson
spiderpoman

Ok I get it, you think because he produced porn, specifically gay porn, that makes Marc Schaffel a child molester, and hence Micheal Jackson a child molester even though MJ was acquited and Schaffel was never accused or suspected of any criminal wrong doing?

BTW, nice source material. It's nice to know your facts are supported by http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ a shining beacon in the world of factual journalism.

I love this thread. It's awesome. Please, never let it end! There IS life here.


Thanks to MJ, Guitar.com is alive, Alive!! ALIVE!!! *Lightning crashes* MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!



Oh Bubbles... We have a brain that needs transplanting, daddy needs you for that special 'job'!


(Bubbles was the closest match to Jackson's for a Brain Transplant should the need ever arise. Plastic surgery shall commence soon...

.......

I think he is getting what is due.

He did something that only Garth Brooks was able to exceed.

What I mean is that Michaels "Thriller" changed the course music.

So did Garth.

I agree that he did turn into a bit of a freak, but he should be greatly
recognized for his accomplishments in the music world and also how
his music touched the entire world.

http://www.riffsguitarsales.com

Hi Jordy and welcome to G.com!

I agree 1000% because he was a musical genius and Idk if anybody else knew this or if im really really late but EVH did the Beat It solo I never knew that but when I found out and listened to it again I was like hell yeah thats Eddie.

Jackson was incredibly diverse in his music but each and every song was amazing and easily danceable to. I bet even if you never really listened to Jackson's music I could play a few of his songs and you still would most likely know some. Everywhere you went he was there. Love him or hate him he changed music.

some people in the world looking for reasons to justify their desire to savage Michael Jackson reveal more about their own prejudices than they do about the man and his music. David you are prejudice against MJ because he was rich and famous and other rich and famous people paid to get off a guilty charge therefore he MUST have also done the same. Grow up, enjoy the music and live your life and have fun.

I wrote up a huge reply to what you said to me earlier but chose to ignore you as its not worth it. You live your life how you want and believe what you want and allow others to do the same with their lives.............. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

"David you are prejudice against MJ because he was rich and famous and other rich and famous people paid to get off a guilty charge therefore he MUST have also done the same. Grow up, enjoy the music and live your life and have fun."


I'm prejudice because I have a different opinion than you, and for 3-4 days whatever out of my life I chose to voice it? Great, that makes tons of sense.


"You say the best indicator of a man is his history and who he considers friends. I am sorry this is the biggest load of crap I have so far seen you write!"

Craig, I totally forgot about you until you just replied. I'm pretty much done here, but I'm still waiting for you to explain that sentence. I would LOVE to hear you make sense of it..


Good grief. I can only imagine what some of you people would be saying about Charles Manson if only he wrote a hit album.

I don't believe you are intelligent enough to understand anything but your own rabble, their history as you know it could be completely wrong. Like I said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." enjoy your life.

Wow Craig, taking this up a level to personal insults? Have fun, but I'll pass.

Good points sidd.

If Michael Jackson's father had bought Michael a guitar instead of abusing his children to tighten up the family act/meal ticket, then none of this would have been an issue. MJ would have spent all of his spare time sitting on the edge of his bed, learning how to shred and how to play Stairway to Heaven behind his head... and he would have turned out a well-adjusted member of society... like all guitar players have throughout history.

There ya go.