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Original message:24 days 18 hours 10 minutes ago

+ 5

Member: Steve Aguilar

2008
WebCred

Alright so you all know that I made the one thread said I was hanging it up?

yeah I lied....my computer broke and just fixed 2 days ago, bewteen that time I was looking for a fix to recording seriously it sucked almost 2 weeks no recording or music(I love pandora radio).....it was horrible.

So I started looking at guitarshops and thought about buying a new guitar since keep myself busy tilI I could record and then try it out on some recordings.

I had a good bit of money saved at this point.....and just when I was about to buy a 599 PRS guitar, I thought to myself why not do some lessons instead Steve?I put the guitar back..and I did.....Iam glad I did.
Iam a little more strapped for time because of this but I prefer it much more.

Some of it was review we talked about Chord construction again and what it means to be in key, etc......

I would like to share 3 things Ive learned so far.....Additive dynamics,Melody lines, and Chords shapes all onb the guitar. this will be my 5th lesson with my teacher tomorrow.

I asked him about songwriting and he goes I know you like Metallica Steve looks like a fairly simple song like Enter sandman
when he showed me I was like wow, how did I not take notice before?

so he goes the first minute of the song they dont even do anything new hardly

so lets look at it......

Intro riff
Intro with some wah
a small count on the hat to bring drums
drums coming in..working a little groove, with intro riff
intro riff leaves and guitar comes in thumping dun dun dun dun.......
guitar adds more to the riff.... dun na na na
at this point it repeats few more times
then the drums doing a little build
AND BAM its goes full into a groove
still the same riff just played different......drums change.

a whole minute of pretty much nothing new least guitar wise,and yet in my opinion its an awesome intro, but imagine without all the little extra things, it would be very empty.....after he showed me that it totally brung a new light on thinking about writing parts.

I find it very hard though with loops to do such a thing, I told him I just record to loops and told me I should consider a way of making everything myself , to build the song MY WAY...so I plan on getting new programs to build drums,bass,etc......

Melody we talked about a fair bit and gave me a really good article on it.....showed many intersting points.

I will give you guys the link
smu.edu/totw/melody.htm

its a great read, whats really insterting is looking at the staff even if I read as slow a turtle granetd the rhythms and key is simple you can easily see how even the staff goes up and down working in a climax/tension.....

Melody is something I need to work , since truth is I hardly think or write them....if I do its by accident :|

I hope this helps you all as much as it has me I just need to begin to apply it and use it. :)

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NGR - "Any culture that teaches you to kill people in order to get to heaven is a bit twisted anyway. Indoctrination at its finest." JFK "My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. "

Reply:24 days 13 hours 14 minutes ago
Member: frumsapap

+ 3

3280
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So are you asking about something, there my brother, or telling? I have played that one many times.

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Time is a death-lock of the mind, a corporeal, linear insurrection of the spirit.

Reply:24 days 12 hours 54 minutes ago
Member: Steve Aguilar

+ 3

2008
WebCred

Telling more so, wanted to share what I learned, maybe it could help fellow g.coms out, I was just saying "additive dynamics" as my teacher calls it I never paid attetion much too just made me listen more to songs....

I think my songs on some are rather empty because I was too worried on one piece ya know?

I forgot about what the other instruments could do and add and vice versa.

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Reply:24 days 12 hours 54 minutes ago
Member: Steve Aguilar

+ 2

2008
WebCred

Double post fail :| . lol

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Reply:24 days 10 hours 51 minutes ago
Member: frumsapap

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I see what you're getting at. I have always tried to hear all the parts to the song instead of focusing on one anyway. That's why I started playing drums, bass guitar, etc. So I understand where you are coming from.

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Time is a death-lock of the mind, a corporeal, linear insurrection of the spirit.

Reply:24 days 9 hours 53 minutes ago
Member: sallan

+ 3

1614
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Sounds like a great lesson!

When constructing your own tune, even if you do incorporate some loops, additive dynamics is how you build a tune. You can also take things away, and go the other direction.

When we do film music this is the basic formula. Try writing 8 bars of a chord progression lets say. Assume it repeats the same 8 bar chord progression but you add something in at each subsequent pass until you arrive at the full ensamble.

For example sake:

8 bars, acoustic guitar only

next 8: acoustic with added bass

next 8: acoustic, bass, and a little piano fill

next 8: acoustic, bass, piano fill, percussion enters

next 8: acoustic, bass, piano fill, percusion, and full drums

next 8: acoustic, bass, piano fill, percusion, drums, and solo instrument

etc...for whatever instruments you like, or whatever the song needs. Essentially your giving the listener something new to grab onto ever 8 bars. You can also drop instruments for varety for 8 bars. Leave space, have breaks where theres only bass and drums, or only bass and piano fill. Once the parts are in your sequencer, you have the ability to experiment, and orchestrate on the spot.

Glad your back with it!

sallan

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I hate your music and/or band

Reply:24 days 4 hours 31 minutes ago
Member: Mr. T!

+ 2

143
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Ravel's Bolero does a pretty good job of this.

“A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself.”

Reply:24 days 9 hours 46 minutes ago
Member: frumsapap

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I like that idea. The adding layer and layer. I have done this the other way, taking different instruments away. torwards the end, until the bass or just the drums are ending the song. I am going to try the beginning with just the formula you gave. I have always liked it when a band starts off with just guitar and vocals and then kicked in with the drums and bass. That is a combo that always gets me.

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Time is a death-lock of the mind, a corporeal, linear insurrection of the spirit.

Reply:24 days 7 hours 53 minutes ago
Member: Steve Aguilar

+ 2

2008
WebCred

Yeah thats a great idea to taking away, could easily work out other instruments/parts to the main melody or riff, great idea sallan :D

I have also looked at songs like hills and travels, much like the melody lines in the staff in the article.

you may start low to peak and then low

or high to low....or low to high or bumpy to smooth, to low......

and so on :)

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Reply:24 days 5 hours 45 minutes ago
Member: this dying soul

+ 4

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To me at least, that's the difference between a songwriter and a composer in my opinion. Songwriters will do lyrics and an accompanying instrument or 2...usually very basic with focus on the lyrics and melody

Composers look at what all the instruments can do to contribute something to the song. Sometimes this is drastic things and sometimes its more subtle stuff.

I barely consider myself a songwriter or composer because I usually complete most of my songs by collaboration. My strong suit is taking songs that already have a basic skeleton and then tweeking it (for example by using chord substitutions or sometimes just changing the voicing of the existing chord to get a different texture or changing the key of a part) or adding to it (sometimes with completely new parts and sometimes layering one part over another in a way that totally changes to sound or feel of the song). Although I do write music, it seems my strong point is more to do with the songs arrangement.

I've noticed that I tend to try getting it so that my bass lines don't simply double the guitar or drone on the root notes all of the time and if there's more than one guitar, sometimes it's best to have the guitars doing 2 different things even if it's only slightly different.

For example, one of my really early demo recordings of one of the first songs I'd had a hand in writing as opposed to just arranging (which unfortunately I don't have in a digital format yet) has the rhythm guitar strumming the same open chord progression (I'd have to relearn the song to detail exactly what I played) the whole way through with the exception of the outro

The lead guitar did some feedback effects during the intro and volume swells during the verse part. When the chorus came along, the lead guitar played a bluesy sort of shuffle with overdrive and at full volume. During the outro the lead guitar kept the volume full blast and mirrored the chords that the rhythm guitar was strumming but with a palm mute and arpegiating the chords and then built up to banging out power chords at the end.

The Bass alternated during the verse between doubling the root note of the rhythm guitars chord progression and and then an ascending pattern that started on the root of the first chord in the progression and ended on the root of the last chord, but played the 3rds and 4ths/5ths of other chords in the middle on the way up to the root of the last chord. During the Chorus the bass did a walking bassline that was similar to the lead guitar's blues shuffle. During the outro, the bass played the root note again in unision with the other instruments.

When I find the recording I'll pick it apart and post here with more detail as to exactly what I did with it.

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Reply:24 days 5 hours 18 minutes ago
Member: Steve Aguilar

+ 1

2008
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Sounds cool, Id like to hear it soul.....I wonder how close I will be to your description :)?

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Reply:24 days 5 hours 15 minutes ago
Member: Steve Aguilar

+ 2

2008
WebCred

Id also like to say that I think technical side, music theory, and just feeling it out, jamming and what have you are ALL important parts of music/guitar too but it seems for now my teacher is getting the vibe that Iam trying to write songs or compose....so that's what were leaning on right now.

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Reply:23 days 14 hours 30 minutes ago
Member: frumsapap

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"I've noticed that I tend to try getting it so that my bass lines don't simply double the guitar or drone on the root notes all of the time and if there's more than one guitar, sometimes it's best to have the guitars doing 2 different things even if it's only slightly different."

I have been playing bass a long time, and the best ones are the ones, IMHO, are the ones that can play kind of against the melody line, to give the song some feel and depth. That is what I am doing right now. I was using a bass simulator on the BR1200CD, but I recently acquired a bass, so now I am actually playing the instrument, instead of trying to mimmick it. Big difference.

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Time is a death-lock of the mind, a corporeal, linear insurrection of the spirit.

Reply:23 days 10 hours 6 minutes ago
Member: sallan

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"I have been playing bass a long time, and the best ones are the ones, IMHO, are the ones that can play kind of against the melody line, to give the song some feel and depth."

The best ones are the ones that play against the melody...it's the art of counterpoint. If anyones interested check out a little Bach for demonstration. If you really want a challenge, print the sheet music and learn to play it, and read his lesson. It's a fantastic piece to learn and will impress anyone as a solo guitar piece, as well as teach you something about counterpoint.

http://www.oreshko.co.uk/bachBourree.htm

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I hate your music and/or band

Reply:22 days 23 hours 37 minutes ago
Member: this dying soul

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counterpoint, that's the term I was struggling to find to describe what I was doing with the verse section of the bassline in the song I described above.

Not exactly a pure counterpoint when I looked up the term to refamiliarize myself, but the ascending pattern I alternated to during the verse was a form of counterpoint between the rhythm guitar and the bass.

for example if the chord progression was 3 chords... say, E min; D maj; C maj - the bass would play E; F#; G when I alternated from playing the root of each chord.

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Reply:22 days 13 hours 49 minutes ago
Member: frumsapap

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I am learning a lot more about this in the Gospel group. The bass player will be playing the first note of the chord progression, or a drone note, and I am playing three different chords in that pattern. Also, when she is walking down on the bass, I am usually trying to play up the fretboard.

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Time is a death-lock of the mind, a corporeal, linear insurrection of the spirit.

Reply:20 days 23 hours 39 minutes ago
Member: this dying soul

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I love taking that approach to the bass and guitar Frumsapap.

Oddly, I usually had to fight with my bandmates to do it...for some reason if I tried getting them to do anything remotely complex they usually gave me a hard time...actually it was just one person who kicked up a fuss; and once we canned his ass our sound evolved rapidly.

I don't know what the guys problem was, but the rest of us felt stifled both creatively and technically. It's pretty bad when even the drummer and the bassist are complaining that the lead guitarist doesn't get a long enough solo in the song. I think he was insecure in his own playing ability and tried to keep us reigned in so he wouldn't look bad.

The other frustrating thing was, he'd complain the parts we assigned him on guitar were too simple, so we'd let him try the more complex part and he'd complain he couldn't sing and play that part simultaneously...often he couldn't play the more complex part without singing either.

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