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Original message:37 days 11 hours 4 minutes ago

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Member: siddp

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So this is a pretty moronic question to ask, but I want to see what you guys' answers are.

What, in your opinion, makes a good song? What, in your opinion, makes a great song?

It's kinda stupid if you get answers like "a tight band, great vocals, and a solo only if the song needs it", because stuff like that *is* necessary. I mean, aside from obvious stuff, what makes a good song.

For that matter, how do you define a song?

Everyone has their opinions, and is entitled to them. I want to know yours.

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Reply:37 days 10 hours 31 minutes ago
Member: frumsapap

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This is left up to the opinion of the one answering, of course. A good song is one that you can feel, deep down within the confines of the soul. Whether it's gut wrenching music, like Mastadon, or it's taking flight with Santana, there are no genre boundaries, it's all according to what you feel. To me. And this may be the epitome of cliche', but that's what I say.

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Time is a death-lock of the mind, a corporeal, linear insurrection of the spirit.

Reply:37 days 24 minutes ago
Member: this dying soul

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I'd have to say one of 2 things qualify a song as a good song in my book

1) if it triggers an emotional response - by which I don't mean someone being offended by the lyrics but rather that the song causes someone to feel the emotions expressed by the music...example, a sad song causes someone's eyes to well up in tears.

2) if the song is catchy and people tend to get it stuck in their head. now this is tricky because I find a lot of songs fit this description that I find are horrible songs... usually if majority of people find the song annoying; that's a bad thing.

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Reply:36 days 21 hours 40 minutes ago
Member: Andy

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I actually value artists like Joe Satriani because of the simple fact that he expresses so much emotion without saying anything. "Always with me, Always with you" is one of the best love songs in existance in my opinion, and there is no words. He wrote it for his wife Rubina. When you write songs like this you're not just writing clever metaphors or following cliches of what everyone associates with love. All you can do is find the notes that express how you feel. You can't borrow from other people. Songs that express that feeling without words are musics greatest asset to me.

As far as stupid songs that just get stuck in your head go... I love them. haha It may sound silly but i love turning on the radio and hearing Rhianna or Lady Gaga and all those popular pop artists. The actual music is probably the bare essentials of skill, and who knows how many of those artists even actually write there own songs... but if it's got a hook and I find it enjoyable I'm going to listen to it. Reguardless of ability or image.

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Reply:36 days 14 hours 42 minutes ago
Member: frumsapap

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" by which I don't mean someone being offended by the lyrics but rather that the song causes someone to feel the emotions expressed by the music..."

Even so, if it offends it got someone to wake up and smell the air and find out what a kick in complacency really is. I don't always like these songs, but they are something out of the ordinary, nonetheless.

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Time is a death-lock of the mind, a corporeal, linear insurrection of the spirit.

Reply:36 days 1 hours 16 minutes ago
Member: this dying soul

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not to detract from you point frum - I can't argue that sometimes people need to have their cages rattled with something that they don't want to hear in order to get them to realize there needs to be a change for the better.

but I find that anyone can put something offensive if their lyrics with the purpose of enraging someone... to get someone to experience anger simply because of the mood/emotion expressed by the song (the music especially) takes real talent in my opinion.

GWAR built a career off of their lyrics and the goofy stage show...mind you I do enjoy a good GWAR song and their stage antics are hilarious.

I just loved the time their vocalist appeared on some talkshow in full costume and this woman ripped into him about how he was destroying the morals of todays youth and warping their minds with his music...his response was simple and showed that he was more intelligent than most of the band's detractors gave him credit for - IF YOU RAISED YOUR CHILDREN RIGHT, THEY WOULDN'T WANT TO LISTEN TO GWAR! .... the parents had nothing to say in their own defence. XD

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Reply:35 days 15 hours 33 minutes ago
Member: frumsapap

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I believe that all children are susceptable to influence. I was influenced by the 90's depress-a-lot movement and did all kinds of really self depreciating things, but it wasn't the music's fault. That's all I am saying. If parents aren't involved with their kids lives, and can't be open and honest about the major issues, drugs, sex, life choices, then the child is not going to have a person to go to for those things, as I didn't. I agree with the guy from GWAR. If parents would raise their children instead of using TV to do it, and let children BE children, then I think that they might grow up with a little more secure inside. And that, my friend is where it should always begin. If a child doesn't feel secure with their parents, then music isn't really going to change a whole lot.

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Time is a death-lock of the mind, a corporeal, linear insurrection of the spirit.

Reply:35 days 1 hours 2 minutes ago
Member: this dying soul

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oh I agree with the guy from GWAR too Frum.

in fact, despite how I was also using them as an example of how anybody can create offensive lyrics to get a reaction out of people; I also like the band.

... and the whole reason why the parents that tried to gang up on him were so speachless when he shot back that their kids wouldn't listen to his music if THEY raised the kids properly is because they suddenly realized ... he's right! At least in part...if those parents have played an active part in their kids lives they will turn out ok, no matter what music they listen to.

To the defence of the kid on this talk show with GWAR, his parents didn't have much to worry about. The kid understood the difference between a GWAR's cartoon violence and the real thing and wasn't likely to be the next Jeffey Dalmer or Albert Fish.

I don't feel the music or media in general impacts how kids turn out as much as how much their parents talk to them about things. I think it's about how much their parents are involved in their lives. I was listening to a lot of stuff that my parents disapproved of but because they kept tabs on me kept the lines of communication open, even when I tried to cut them, and they were involved in what I was up to, I turned out ok. The big difference between now and when my parents were kids is that there was more emphasis on family compared to today's society... it's all about the values parents instill in their kids and how they go about doing it.

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Reply:35 days 15 hours 29 minutes ago
Member: siddp

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Hmm.

and what defines a song for any of you?

Many people dont consider stuff done by Avant garde artists or other stuff, songs...

Does a song NEED a central theme to be a song?

What differentiates a jam from a song, in you opinion

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Reply:35 days 14 hours ago
Member: frumsapap

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"Does a song NEED a central theme to be a song?" I don't think it does. And besides that a song that is Avant Garde still has some central melody, or lack there of. Unless it just scuks monkey balls. And even then, someone's is bound to like it somewhere in the World.

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Time is a death-lock of the mind, a corporeal, linear insurrection of the spirit.

Reply:35 days 5 hours 34 minutes ago
Member: David Zaldivar

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I would think a "song" would usually have a recognizable musical form, and feature singing. ..isn't that the standard definition of a song, anyway?

Keep in mind there are also other musical forms - sonata form, ternary form, rondo form, etc etc stuff I barely remember from music class. But basically, if it doesn't have singing, I don't think it's classified as a song.

I think what makes a GOOD song is catch rhythm and melody. Look at what's popular..Billy Jean, Smooth Criminal...lots of beatles songs. That's what will get inside peoples heads and stay memorable.

Reply:2 days 12 hours 25 minutes ago
Member: frumsapap

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"I think what makes a GOOD song is catch rhythm and melody. Look at what's popular..Billy Jean, Smooth Criminal...lots of beatles songs. That's what will get inside peoples heads and stay memorable."

Well, for the usual populous I'd have to agree. But for people seeking out more than just catchy rythms, and catchy pop music, I don't think that "Smooth Criminal" would do it. Progressive rock, Fusion, and Progressive Jazz don't always have a specific central idea. Their may be a story wrapped up somewhere, but when I listen to Miles Davis, I'm not looking for catchy. I am listening to something that doesn't fit in the norm, even today. Some of the crap they have been playing on the radio with the vocal enhancers, and all that bull shit grates my nerves, but someone out there loves that stuff.

Which brings me back to my original thinking about all of this. A great song is left up to the interpreter. I like Mudvayne, someone else may find it offensive, loud and obnoxious. I like Mastodon, but someone else may think it's the devil's own demons singing it. I love jazz, I love anything that is not the norm usually. But that's me. Now JTC's definition is about as close to a song as one can come to.

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Time is a death-lock of the mind, a corporeal, linear insurrection of the spirit.

Reply:35 days 4 hours 31 minutes ago
Member: JTC

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Appears you are right about the singing part.

–noun
1. a short metrical composition intended or adapted for singing, esp. one in rhymed stanzas; a lyric; a ballad.
2. a musical piece adapted for singing or simulating a piece to be sung: Mendelssohn's “Songs without Words.”
3. poetical composition; poetry.
4. the art or act of singing; vocal music.
5. something that is sung.
6. an elaborate vocal signal produced by an animal, as the distinctive sounds produced by certain birds, frogs, etc., in a courtship or territorial display.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/song

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Hero's Conquest - JTC

Reply:35 days 48 minutes ago
Member: Steve Aguilar

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The riff
the melody
the tone
the structure,flow,progression
the balance of instruments
the lyrics
the vocal style
the thoughts and feelings felt

those are some for me probably more I left out.

Great songs are nothing more than hitting the right spots but that's me.

I mean look at,children,and other songs there some songs that you hear and because off the strong hook or melody. Or however you might say it... It catches and guides I look at riffs and chord progression in such a way too.

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NGR - "Any culture that teaches you to kill people in order to get to heaven is a bit twisted anyway. Indoctrination at its finest." JFK "My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. "

Reply:35 days 24 minutes ago
Member: Steve Aguilar

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I can't edit that post don't know why but sidd your a zep fan right, look at stairway and how he builds the chord progression which was mostly A minor where he moved the notes around in the 5th fret spot via why A minor penta works well.

imagine if you didn't have that, rhythm is something and what's around and underneath the music or song is something overlooked

lead and soloing is great but you something to do it too ya know?

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Reply:2 days 17 hours 40 minutes ago
Member: bayou jim

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I think when a song finds a home in your heart, then it becomes a great song. Not sure about this, but I think our heart is an emotional "something".

Reply:2 days 15 hours 17 minutes ago
Member: Hippieway

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To me and the songs I try to write start with a simple melody, a catchy hook and to me (mostly because I have always been more of a wordsmith than musician) is the ability to express an idea in a unique way. I also like a simple but heavy rhythm. And last but not least I like an interesting bass line. These are all things that are in songs I like but who knows or cares what anyone else likes. I also happen to think Ray Davies is one of the great songwriters of the modern era.

Reply:2 days 14 hours 28 minutes ago
Member: jesus bikerfreak

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I agree with Hippieway on this one.The KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid) applies to most things and I believe also to music. I believe the greatest songs do start with a simple melody. Much of Mozart's music starting with a fairly simple melody. Although I do so much appreciate the quality of the instrument, I have also always enjoyed listening to the lyrics. Lyrics differ for me from the instrument in that they are more intriguing when they are somewhat complex. I guess these are the basic elements I see in many great songs, but as in all art, there are no absolute rules.

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"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." - Rush

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