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Original message:14 days 2 hours 33 minutes ago

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Member: Rob Zacher

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Please Help Me Improve My Technique!

I've been playing for a few years, but never seriously - just messing here and there for personal amusement, mainly. Was in a couple of bands a few years back, but mostly just played noise when I got a solo spot, haha. I recorded myself today to try and analyse how I'm playing, as I'm just embarking upon an extensive practice regime, set to improve my chops and musicality over an indefinite period of time. I recorded myself via my MacBook, iMovie I think, and it offered the option of uploading it to Youtube - so I did!

Would any of you guys with a spare five minutes please have a look at my vid and give some constructive criticism? It's just a horrible improv of a few licks I've learnt, but they aren't linked and there's just a bunch of general noise, really! Feel free to mock, that's cool, but any pointers would be hugely appreciated!

Thanks for your time guys! (and girls!!!)

Source:http://www.youtube.com

Reply:14 days 1 hours 2 minutes ago
Member: ibzRG

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I tlooks like you are fairly comfortable with the fretboard. What you need is to make sense with your playing (except when you deliberately want to not make sense). Pick your favourite solos and learn them. Note for note, until you can play them exactly as they are. Other people will tell you to add your personal touch to the songs you play. The reason I'm saying to play them exactly is because sometimes their beauty is in the detail so if you want to expand your own musical vocabulary you have to adapt your playing to the song and not the song to your playing.

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Reply:13 days 23 hours 31 minutes ago
Member: Rob Zacher

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Thanks man!

I have incorporated mimicking the greats into my schedule - currently, I'm working on Peter Green's style, covering 'Albatross' and 'Black Magic Woman'.

I think my biggest problem is that not having had to perform, I've been quite comfortable just burning irrelevant notes for my own amusement; obviously without any thought as to it making any sense. The emphasis on learning songs has never really been something that I've taken much notice of - always kinda rebelled against the traditional school of learning; very dick-ish. I've very much been an erudite student of the instrument and music in general, but never methodically applied the learnings to my playing.

Very, very stupid; I know!!!

However, now I have got a pretty exhaustive schedule of things to learn, everything from arpeggios to zither-imitation (wanted an A-Z; I haven't actually considered zither-imitation. Until now.)

So, I guess that we have established I need to get some proper songs under my fingers - any other suggestions? Keep 'em coming - thanks!

Reply:13 days 20 hours 23 minutes ago
Member: JTC

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It's clear that you have been playing a while.

My recommendations are
#1 Don't focus on speed anymore. You got it now you need to make it sound good.
#2 Start making this stuff musical instead of just rambling off neat little guitar riff's and tricks.
#3 Hop on board the next collab we do on this site and expose what you can do in a structured way.

Good post. Need more like this.
& Welcome to Guitar.com

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Reply:13 days 19 hours 52 minutes ago
Member: Rob Zacher

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Wow, thanks man!

That's just what I'm looking for and I'll be keeping a keen eye open for the collaborations in the future!

You really hit the nail on the head - I've been stuck in the rut of 'faster is better' even though I know so so well that really isn't the case. I think I actually believed that for about a month, tops. However, because it was quite early on in my playing days, it kinda moulded my fingers into an almost anti-magnetism; they simply have to move to the next note as quickly as possible! It's a pretty annoying habit, but just that - a habit. I've kicked smoking, which was EASY compared to letting go of this speed thing. My head let it go an absolute age ago, but will my fingers? Will they bollo-...

I have a huge compendium of learning materials and I think what keeps the speedy repetition of stale riffs coming back is that when I list what I have to learn, I become a bit overwhelmed and just sink back into the comfort of learned playing - which is hugely counter-productive.

Do you have any advice in terms of structuring a practice plan? I've read dozens of articles and also a fantastic book by Richard Provost which has helped endlessly, but it's always good to hear real-life accounts from other players. I'm very much a theorist when it comes to these things, so I have a schedule created, which is concise in what it covers and is timed so that everything I need to learn is in neat little portions of my available time each day, but A/ sometimes I practice something for too long and eat into time for the next segment (which makes me think the world is ending!) and B/ it can still be a bit overwhelming seeing all these things that I have to learn to be a rounded player!

I think I've written too much (it's late and I ramble like bee-hatch!), but I'll end by thanking everyone for their much-appreciated input - apart from Guthrie Govan. It's your fault I strive for perfection. And Michael Lee Firkins. And Tommy Emmanuel. And...you get the picture!

All opinions and chunks of advice are welcome and appreciated; keep it flowing and share the love / knowledge!

Rob

Reply:13 days 18 hours 52 minutes ago
Member: ibzRG

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There is no magic trick that will make you stick to your schedule. If you really WANT to stick to it, you will. If you don't, you won't.

Since you don't have deadlines (like the next lesson with a teacher, the next band practice or a gig) if you need more time to practice something, take that time and push the schedule back. Instead of fixing things on specific days, just fix things in an order you want to deal with them and take as much time as you need with them. If you want to grind something till you ace it, do it. If you want to move ahead to get a fresh breath, do that. You won't master anything in just one sitting. Make space in you schedule for revising things you learned previously.

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Reply:13 days 12 hours 24 minutes ago
Member: this dying soul

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ibz, you mentioned how some people would say it's better to add your own personal touch to the solos...

while I normally feel this is how it should be done, for the purpose of improving technique and increasing your own catalogue of licks to draw upon, I'd have to agree the note for note approach is best.

By learning each note of the solo, in addition to learning licks, you begin to learn (whether conciously or subconciously) how to construct a solo.

In my early years of playing I learned solos note for note. I didn't start putting my personal spin on solos until after I had learned the full solo and was playing the song in front of an audience on a regular basis. Also if you eventually take the "personal statement" approach, it's still usefull to know the original solo so that you can make references to the original solo when you play by including signature licks from key parts of the original solo that everyone will recognize. I find this lessens the chance of alienating someone because you butchered their favorite song.

In the case of artists you really enjoy, if you learn enough of their licks by doing the note for note thing; you may eventually get so good at emulating their style that you can actually do a full improvisation of a solo by that artist and nobody would notice.

This is something I feel I have to get back to doing again. I took a long layoff from the guitar due to tendonitis a few years back and since I've started playing again I find I don't have the discipline to sit there and learn songs... I've fallen into that annoying habit that many a bedroom guitarist has of learning bits and pieces. Maybe it'd be different if I found some people to jam with on a regular basis too.

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Reply:13 days 6 hours 53 minutes ago
Member: Rob Zacher

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All very good advice - thanks everyone!

Right, I'm off to practice - Sunday is 'recap day'! No point in learning if you're not sure you've retained it all!

Thanks again guys, keep sharing!

Rob

Reply:13 days 6 hours 8 minutes ago
Member: farlow

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If you are working on Peter Green here's a backing track for Supernatural from the John Mayall LP Hard Road.

http://www.4shared.com/file/110577350/f3f8bcb/Peter_Green_with_Bluesbreakers_The_Supernatural.html

Here's a guide if you're not familiar with it.

http://www.4shared.com/file/148388795/a38cbc0d/11_-_The_Supernatural.html

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Reply:13 days 57 minutes ago
Member: Brandon amseyray

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Try using accompaniment. Slow down some. Play along with your favorite bands. Get a multitracker, or some software, and accompany yourself. you definitely smoke me. Keep the faith! lemme plug an A.C. post- fix broken cables -save $$$ http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2357450/guitar_cable_blues.html?cat=33

Reply:12 days 23 hours 45 minutes ago
Member: drakbots

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Get involved wth every band thing you can, jam, anything. The more you can put your skills into the contezt of a song, the better you will get, you already have technique stuff down, as far as i can tell from the video.

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Reply:12 days 22 hours 11 minutes ago
Member: Rob Zacher

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Thanks for the further encouragement, very much appreciated - and thanks for the cool article, Brandon!

I have Logic, so I guess I just need to make some (or use some of the freely available) backing tracks and just try to make something as musical as possible!

It's my dream to be a professional musician, and unless I get round to playing music - well, that's not going to happen, is it!

It's fairly unlikely that I can get a gig playing ropey Paul Gilbert licks! I don't think in the history of mankind has there been a gig where the performer is called out to play an encore consisting of shoddily-shredded pentatonics!

Whilst the feedback I have received has been beyond anything I expected (thanks!), I had initially wanted feedback on hand position and stuff. I notice that my thumb has a tendency to creep over the neck a fair amount - whilst I'm working on ironing this out (sticking to one-finger-per-fret and classical hand positioning whilst practicing), it tends to rear it's less-attractive head quite often! Is this a problem? It's not particularly uncomfortable, but asides limiting fret-span, is it damaging; e.g RSI or carpal tunnel syndrome inducing?

Touching on the one-finger-per-fret fingering style - would you say that this was a necessity once your technique advances? I can adhere to this - and, aesthetically, it looks better when watching a player who utilises it - but tend to use my first and second fingers to play one-tone intervals (not all the time, however). I notice that Shawn Lane and Guthrie Govan have a similar method of playing (my style was ingrained before I'd heard of these guys - it was easier!), so presumably you can get by with whatever fingerings are comfortable?

I'm guessing that it's a case of apples and oranges, but it would be cool to hear your opinions and thoughts - they have been hugely inspiring and just frankly cool - thanks again!

Cheers,

Rob

Reply:12 days 22 hours 10 minutes ago
Member: Rob Zacher

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A quick addendum - thanks Farlow; that's just what I needed!

Reply:12 days 18 hours 51 minutes ago
Member: ibzRG

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About hand and finger position.
One finger per fret is not the answer to everything. It depends on what you're playing. Sometimes some licks may require you to cover more ground by stretching your fingers. One finger per fret works for narrow runs across the neck. But if you can stretch and use less fingers, this leaves you with free fingers to reach farther for notes.
The thumb reaching over the fretboard is classically improper. But you're not playing classical guitar. Hendrix, Blackmore... they reached with their thumbs over the fretboard to actually fret the E string. Besides, you NEED your thumb up there in order to generate leverage for bending strings. But if you're doing a speedy run the thumb might be better at a lower position. Adjust the thumb to fit what you're playing. Guitar playing has evolved since classical guitar was invented and their rules are obsolete IMO.
Also, to avoid carpal tunnel problems, tendonitis and all those unpleasant afflictions, don't stress you wrist. The higher your thumb is, the straighter your wrist is and the more strength your fingers have for fretting. As you move your thumb lower, the wrist goes in an angle and your fingers get weaker and require more wrestling to get the job done and you'll feel the stress in your wrist. Some runs will work better with the thumb lower but don't over do it. Keep you wrist as straight and relaxed as you can whenever you can. And as dorky and uncool as it may look, this is much easier to achieve if you don't hang the guitar too low, so that your forearm is parallel to the ground or even pointing upwards.

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Reply:12 days 16 hours 1 minutes ago
Member: pickabass

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Or tilt the headstock to the sky. That usually improves my angle until i need the upper register ;-)

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Reply:12 days 11 hours 8 minutes ago
Member: Rob Zacher

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Thanks again, guys - I'm glad that deviation from classical technique is viewed more as an evolution than an improper and rebellious middle finger to the 'correct' school of playing!

Rob

Reply:12 days 10 hours 35 minutes ago
Member: bachmirage

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your vibrato could use some work as well. seems you have only one real tachnique for it. vibrato can make or break your overall sound. try experimenting with more subtle slower vibrato bends as well as playing them by pulling up on the string as well "pushing " up on the string. learn the solo to joe walsh "life's been good". and maybe a few others from the james gang and or eagles(hotel california). you'll immediatley see the subtleties of slower more musical bends and vibrato's. all of the greats have awesome vibrato. it's something i find a lot of kids really tend to completely overlook and take for granted. until they play for a while,at least. then they start to see just how important it really is...once you master vibrato control, creating more soulful and meaningful solos becomes much, much easier...especially when mixed in with the speed runs... learn "the cradle will rock"solo's from van halen "women and chldren first" album. real nice use of subtle 1/4 and 1/2 bends mixed in with some nice legato work. makes for some real nice phrasing...

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Reply:12 days 1 hours 15 minutes ago
Member: Rob Zacher

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BachMirage - thanks dude! Vibrato is something that I completely appreciate (though clearly haven't paid much attention to!) and am incorporating into my schedule. Provision of specific examples is bloody ideal; thanks! The beauty behind one carefully, vibrato-drenched sustaining note is more powerful than a million of my 'Marks! Set! GOOOO!' notes, haha!

I think I remember you from the Old School G.com - back in the old 'Misc' era days! Haha!

Might be totally wrong and I don't think that you were specifically one of the 'Misc-reants', but I certainly recognise your sign-in.

More importantly, however, is your advice - thanks brother!

Cheers,

Rob

Reply:12 days 24 minutes ago
Member: ibzRG

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That would probably be him indeed. Personally, I avoided the misc section like the plague.

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Reply:12 days 7 minutes ago
Member: frumsapap

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I am on my comptuter at work, and my lap top is not hooked to the intro net yet, but what I would say that maybe others have not is practice 20 minutes a day on something, whenever you are just by your lonesome. You won't lose focus this way, and believe it or not the brain will reatain it. Also, try playing different genres of music, other than speedy music. Some slow hand blues, jazz, etc. Rock and Roll is great, and speed is a must if it counts. I always try to write a balance, and somtimes it means a progression of Fast, slowing down to about half, or vice versa, and then kicking back in with a middle of the road time. Experimenting is one of the ways that can make a song more unique. I would also say, let other people, non musicians listen to your music, when possible. It gives a different perspective. Hope this helps.

One more thing, check out Richardlloyd.com. Some of the stuff may be rehash on there, but he has an interesting point of view. He's a little wacked, but he is a great teacher.

Gotta go, Later.

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Reply:11 days 22 hours 9 minutes ago
Member: bachmirage

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i've been here since way back when...around '95. never much liked misc. too many wars and just general nastiness. and there were enough battles going on on the other threads. those miscers and their flooding really brought the whole thing down. much better with the new boards.

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Reply:11 days 12 hours 25 minutes ago
Member: Rob Zacher

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Thanks, I'll be sure to check out the Richard Lloyd site! Non-musicians tend to enjoy music, so as a rule they wouldn't entertain speed and/or technique without good structure and melody, so I'll be sure to get some stuff up on YouTube when I've got some songs that I am not scared of airing, haha!

I generally whacked this video up through chance, really - was just filming myself just to review hand position, fingering accuracy at speed, etc. and iVideo (I think it's called; on my other laptop at the mo') offered the chance to upload it to YouTube...where else can you get unbiased, mature feedback? Haha. I thought I'd post it here to ACTUALLY get mature, honest feedback from guys that actually know what they are talking about and that's just what I have got, so thanks!

BachMirage - I wasn't an accredited Miscer or anything, I just generally thought some of the Photoshop stuff was quite amusing and some of the running jokes, too. However, the typical response to newcomers and the bitchiness, spamming of threads et al - well, it just made it essentially a nullable part of an otherwise great site! Initially, I was somewhat dubious posting anything based on previous hostility...

I'm glad that this site is up and running at speed - have to say I've missed the opportunity to discuss my biggest passion (albeit one I've taken something of a sabbatical from; storming back into now as it's always been niggling away in my mind - it feels like it's my calling, hence why I need to really work at it!) with other people of equal or greater passion than I!

Thanks again, everyone. I'm definitely taking your hint, tips, and cheats (if only 'up, down, left, right, A + start' worked for guitar...) on board and hope to display that I have taken heed to your sage words!

Needless to say, I still welcome any further advice on my sieve-like technique and indeed, any tips in general. Music / Guitar-related, somewhat obviously!

Cheers,

Rob

Reply:9 days 20 hours 2 minutes ago
Member: this dying soul

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also to add to the subject of vibrato and different vibrato techniques:

Clapton often employs a technique similar to that of classical violinists where he rocks his finger back and forth instead of the usual side to side motion used by most players (like when BB King fans his fingers out and wiggles his wrist to pull the string side to side)

It's also good to vary the speed of your vibrato. If you always use a fast vibrato all of the time it starts to sound like you've drank too much Red Bull. Also, vary the width. Sometimes a wide vibrato sounds good, but other times a shallow vibrato might work better.

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Reply:7 days 5 hours 19 minutes ago
Member: Rob Zacher

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Thanks man - though more often than not it is a case of caffeine abuse, haha!

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